< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·
|May-30-04|| ||Tigran Petrosian: Great game! |
|May-31-04|| ||Shadout Mapes: If 19...Rc8, then what does white play, 20.Ng5? |
|May-31-04|| ||PinkPanther: That's news to me, I thought Robatsch was a lot older than he apparently is. I thought he was long gone by the time this game was played. |
|May-31-04|| ||Benzol: <PinkPanther> Sadly he passed away not too long ago as a result of cancer. I can't remember the exact date. |
|May-31-04|| ||tpstar: <Shadout Mapes> If 19 ... Rc8 20. Bc6! runs Interference and wins a piece = 20 ... Rxc6 21. Rxd8++, or 20 ... Qxc6 21. Qxc6 (21. Rxd8+?? Rxd8 22. Qxc6 Rd1+ mates) Rxc6 22. Rxd8+ Ke7 23. Rxh8, or 20 ... Rc7 21. Rxd8+ Ke7 22. Qxc7+, and otherwise 21. Qxc8. |
|Dec-22-07|| ||whiteshark: He should have tried the <Robatsch Defence> instead. :D|
|Jul-06-08|| ||mkrk17: I could see Rd8+ and then Bxc5, but i never thought the game would end so quickly. Great stuff from Vishy.|
|Jul-06-08|| ||Jedithious: 12.B-e3! is probably the first decicive move.|
|Jul-06-08|| ||al wazir: It wasn't hard to find 14. Rd8+ Bxd8 15. Bxc5, but I was stuck on black's next move. Maybe 15...Be7 would have been better. After 16. Qd3 O-O 17. Bxe7 Re8 18. Qd8 Qb5, black is at least in no danger of an immediate mate or loss of material.|
|Jul-06-08|| ||An Englishman: Good Evening: I saw the first two moves and stopped--never saw much point in analyzing intuitive sacrifices deeply. I was never too surprised at how quickly opponents would collapse, as here.|
Still, I can't help but wonder if Black has a better defense: 15...Be7? 17...Qa4? That's why I didn't like to waste time on the myriad variations characteristic of such sacrifices and get into time trouble: that was my opponent's job.
And <whiteshark> is correct: Robatsch should have played his defense.
|Jul-06-08|| ||Jole: I got it and got it quickly woo! I thought that yesterday's puzzle was harder. The motif in this game seems strangely familiar though...maybe I saw it a few years ago.|
|Jul-06-08|| ||chopbox: Regarding two comments from 4+ years ago asking what would happen after 19...Rc8. Shadout Mapes considers 20.Ng5 and tpstar considers 20.Bc6. I'd like to put my two cents down on 20.Rd7. I think Black's best response is 20...Be7, after which White can respond 21.Ne5 after which Black can't really move but must be attentive to threats of the knight forks on d7 (after rook moves) and on g6 (after Black Q occupies e7). As an example of this pretty (but maybe not best as 21...f6 is not forced) line, there goes
19...Rc8 20.Rd7 Be7 21.Ne5 f6 22.Bg6; then if 22...fxe6 23.Rxe7 Qxe7 24.Qxc8+ with mate to follow next move, and if 22...hxg6 23.Rxe7 Qxe7 24.Qxc8+ Qe8 25.Qc5+ Qe7 26.Nxg6+ |
|Jul-06-08|| ||dzechiel: White to play (14?). Black is up a pawn. "Insane."
There are many things you quickly notice about this position.
1 - black appears to have taken a queen's knight pawn with a queen - a major no-no, especially if you aren't castled
2 - black is woefully underdeveloped compared to white. White is castled and has all pieces developed, while black has not castled and still has both rooks and the queen-bishop on their home squares.
3 - if the white rook moves off of the 4th rank, it will leave the bishop on e4 undefended.
4 - the white rook on d4 is under attack by black. Why wasn't it taken on the last move? Probably because black just moved the bishop to f6.
5 - so it APPEARS that black has gotten greedy. Instead of castling last move, he played 13...Bf6.
For me, all of this telegraphs the move
as the key move. After
14...Bxd8 15 Bxc5
white has given up an exchange, but black's development has gotten even worse than before. Now only the black queen is off of the first rank, and black will not be castling any time soon, as the bishop on c5 covers f8.
Now comes the real "insane" part. How does black try to get out of trouble, and how does white put him away?
Black can try
15...Be7 16 Bxe7 Kxe7 17 Qd2
and black is paralyzed. He can't play 17...Bd7 or 17...Re8, white just take's them with check.
I think this is it. Time to check.
|Jul-06-08|| ||TrueBlue: there are like a 100 lines without clear winner. But first move was obvious, anything else allows black to castle.|
|Jul-06-08|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <An Englishman: Good Evening: I saw the first two moves and stopped>|
Ditto here. I figured out that preventing black from castling might be worth the exchange, but expected the white N and LSB to play some role in the attack.
As <dzechiel>, I expected <15...Be7> response. Hiarcs thinks that it is a somewhat better defense (by about 0.7 pawn's worth) than what got played in the game.
However, continuing the attack with <16 Bxe7 Kxe7 17 Qd2> appears to be rather tricky. For quite a while, the engine insisted that it is a draw, and some serious forward/backward sliding was required to get to a winning range of evaluations.
In the game itself, black really lost any chances by playing 19...g6; longer resistance might have been possible after 19...Rc8.
|Jul-06-08|| ||Once: This is a position where an attacking player spots that d8 is doubly attacked by the white rooks, that the knight on c5 is undefended and black is behind on development.|
A defensive player would spot that white is down a pawn and that bishop on e4 is attacked by the white knight. Black may have long-range back rank mate threats.
There's a general rule of thumb in positions like these. When you are better developed and your opponent's king is uncastled, try to keep his king in the centre. So our eyes are drawn to 14. Rd8+ Bxd8 15. Bxc5
What have we got for sacrificing the exchange? Black's pieces are passive and the bishop on c5 stops him from castling. White threatens attacking moves like Qd3 and Ne5.
As with yesterday, I think this has to be a sacrifice made by judgement. Like others, I did not calculate much past this point.
Strange week we have had. Monday was one of the toughest ever, and I found Friday to be harder than Saturday and Sunday ...
All together now ... It's just a step to the left, and a jump to the right. Put your hands on your hips and draw your knees in tight. Do the pelvic thrust, like you're going insane. Let's do the timewarp again.
Apologies for the warped (!) sense of humour - I'm going on holiday in the next hour. Talk to you all again in a fortnight's time.
|Jul-06-08|| ||whiteshark: Sunday puzzles are commonly beyond my ken. Today I would try <14.Ng5!>. |
click for larger view
|Jul-06-08|| ||Horatio: what about 13-....Nxe4 instead of Bf6?
May be 14.Bc1,Nc3.15.Rd8,Bd8.16.Rd8,Kd8.17.Qd2 and white takes black Q.
|Jul-06-08|| ||Xende: Easy to get the idea, difficult to calculate all the variations.|
|Jul-06-08|| ||triangulation: ok let me try insane properly for onece.
The first thing i notice about the position is that the black bishop is guarding the d8 square otherwise rd8+ would be brilliant.
of course, more pressing, it would seem is the immediate loss of material,with the light squared bishop unprotected and the rook being attacked by the black dark squared bishop.
Saving the material isn't an option(through moves like Ra4 or Rc4 as you're pawns down anyway) as it loses all attack.
Candidate moves :
1. Rad1 giving up the exchange anyway
followed possibly by Bxa8 15.Bxc5,Bd7 16.Ne5,Bc4 17. Qd2 Bf6 ....
and black seems safe relatively
2.14 ne5 is possible but dosen't make sense
3. 14 ng5 too seems a dud
I give up let's see.
|Jul-06-08|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: While looking at the engine analysis of this puzzle, I spotted a derivative puzzle. Suppose that the game went into this variant:|
14. Rd8+ Bxd8 15. Bxc5 Be7 16. Qd3 f5 17. Bxf5! Qf6 18. Ne5!
click for larger view
White has 3 pieces en prise, but is winning easily.
Tuesday-level question: why is the white knight untouchable?
Wednesday-level question: why is the white LSB on f5 untouchable?
|Jul-06-08|| ||Giearth: <MAJ> 18... f6xf5 19.d3-b5+ c8-d7 20.b5xd7+ e8-f8 21.b5-d8+ a8xd8 22.d1xd8#|
18... f6xe5 19.f5-g6+ h7xg6 20.d3xg6+ e8-f8 21.d1-d8#
18... e6xf5 19.d3-b5+
If I were black, I would probably choose 18... g6 as my defense.
|Jul-06-08|| ||belgradegambit: This weeks Sunday puzzle not insane at all. The position shouts for Rd8+ and then putting the queen on the d file.|
|Jul-06-08|| ||ounos: <dzechiel>, sometimes you try to infer the last move and "use" that information to find the puzzle solution. (Here "Black is greedy" because he moved Bf6 instead of castling, thus must be panished by Rd8+ - what if Black was not greedy but played something like Bh4-f6?)|
The only cases the last move really matters per se are en passant instances... Past moves can also matter where the right to castle is ambiguous. Apart from these, the position is what it is, whatever the moves which lead to it.
|Jul-06-08|| ||stukkenjager: <whiteshark> 14.Ng5! looks ok to me|
14.Ng5 Bxg5 (14...Bd7 15.Nxf7 Kxf7 16.Qh5+ Kg8 17.Qxc5 Be8 18.Rd6) (14...Nd7 15.Qh5 g6 16.Qh3) 15.Bxg5 Bd7 16.Qf3 Rc8 17.Be3 (17.Rxd7 O-O 18.R7d2 Qe5 19.Bxb7 Nxb7 20.Be7 Nc5 21.Bxf8 Kxf8) 17...Nxe4 18.Rxd7 O-O 19.Qxe4 Qxa2
a clear win in all lines, so it seems.
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