< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Sep-20-09|| ||Everett: <pp> Exactly, without proper study Seirawan became remarkably strong; a prodigious success to become a GM in 7 years when it takes others 10-15.|
There's no irony in doing something if you think previous versions were not worthy of one's attention.
Finally, there are more than one accepted definition of "prodigy," so relax.
|Oct-07-11|| ||erniecohen: 22...♘e5 and the game is even.|
|Oct-07-11|| ||rapidcitychess: <erniecohen>
22...Ne5 23.Bxe5 dxe5 24.Rxe5 and the position seems good for white. Am I missing something obvious? :/
|Oct-21-11|| ||erniecohen: <rapidcitychess> Why is the resulting position better for white? It's symmetric, no levers in sight. White has no tactical shots that I see.|
|Sep-14-12|| ||FSR: This was Seirawan's first big success, beating a GM. I remember the write-up in Chess Life & Review, in which the author talked about the maturity of Seirawan's positional understanding for such a young player.|
|Jan-10-13|| ||perfidious: < Everett: Yes, he is an IM here, and the date is right. Thought he was 14, but you may be right. >|
This is not so: Seirawan won the Expert prize at Lincoln, and did not attain IM till 1979 (then the title awarded for victory in the World Junior), and received his GM title at the 1980 FIDE Congress. http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?...
|Jan-10-13|| ||RookFile: Nice game.|
|Jan-10-13|| ||Everett: <perfidious: < Everett: Yes, he is an IM here, and the date is right. Thought he was 14, but you may be right. >|
This is not so: Seirawan won the Expert prize at Lincoln, and did not attain IM till 1979 (then the title awarded for victory in the World Junior), and received his GM title at the 1980 FIDE Congress. http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml>?...
Thanks for the education, perfidious! Hope Yaz comes back from his recent US Championship drubbing...
|Jan-10-13|| ||perfidious: <Everett> An amusing sidebar: in Benko's article discussing that US Open, he notes that he mistook Yasser for a girl, due to his hairdo and the fact that Seirawan wore jewellery.|
When my team played at the National HS championship at Cleveland two years later, there was no mistaking who Yasser was, though. Per my very first kibitz on this game, Yasser could play, despite his loss to our third board as White in the opening variation 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 f5.
|Jan-10-13|| ||latviangambit: I played Yaz a couple of months ago on icc as part of an 18 board simul. I had a good position till move 20 (according to my post endgame engine analysis) but then played a couple of not best moves and it was wham bam thank you maam 1-0. I was black.|
|Jan-11-13|| ||Everett: <latviangambit: I played Yaz a couple of months ago on icc as part of an 18 board simul. I had a good position till move 20 (according to my post endgame engine analysis) but then played a couple of not best moves and it was wham bam thank you maam 1-0. I was black.>|
If you care to share the game I would love to see it!
|Jan-11-13|| ||latviangambit: everett - here it is.....it was from November 2011 : A Budapest Gambit :)|
[Opening "Budapest: Rubinstein variation"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e5 3. dxe5 Ng4 4. Bf4 Nc6 5. Nf3 Bb4+ 6. Nc3 Bxc3+ 7. bxc3
Qe7 8. Qd5 f6 9. exf6 Nxf6 10. Qd3 d6 11. g3 O-O 12. Bg2 Bg4 13. O-O Rae8
14. Rfe1 Kh8 15. Qb1 b6 16. Nd4 Na5 17. Nc6 Nxc6 18. Bxc6 Bd7 19. Bg2 Bg4
20. e4 Qd7 21. Qb5 Bh3 22. Qxd7 Bxd7 23. e5 dxe5 24. Bxe5 Ng4 25. Bxc7 Nxf2
26. Rxe8 Nh3+ 27. Bxh3 ♗lack resigns 1-0
|Jan-12-13|| ||Everett: Thank you <latviangambit>. Looks like you played him tough!|
|Jan-12-13|| ||latviangambit: Everett - thx... I used a lot of time and all it took was one less than good move and I was dead. Funny thing is as I analyzed it afterwards, I saw the engine's better moves and I said "why didn't I see that"? Then, I answered my own question with "because you aren't very good, that's why!!" :)|
Seeing the best moves after the fact doesn't count for much sadly!!
|Mar-08-18|| ||Phony Benoni: I hate this sort of thing. Here's the position after <35,,,Rb1+>.
click for larger view
The tournament bulletins, which have numerous typos, give <36.Kh2>. Pal Benko, annotating the game in "Chess Life & Review" (November 1975, p. 741) gives <35.Kg2>, which is the move we have here.
What was the source of the discrepancy? As I see it, there two scenarios:
1) Benko was using the bulletin as a source of the game, and made a mistakes in transcription.
2) Benko had another source for the game that indicated 35.Kg2.
I feel #1 is more likely. (These bulletins had a lot of typos, but this wasn't the sort of error they usually made.) But I'm not sure enough to send in a correction. And I doubt Seirawn remembers.
|Mar-08-18|| ||zanzibar: What's really unbelievable is Bisguier missing 34...Qf4 and allowing such an obvious interference tactic.|
* * * * *
Alburt gives Kg2
Tidbit about the game:
<November 1975, pgs. 730-731 – Tim Redman’s report on the U.S. Open in Lincoln, NE, mentioned how much time Bisguier spent at the hotel swimming pool and also included Bisguier’s result (tied for fourth). The article said that Bisguier was a good salesperson (including on Lincoln TV) for chess. Redman’s report also stated that Seirawan defeated the first grandmaster he ever played—and that the grandmaster was Bisguier.>
Wonder what move Seirawan gives on his DVD?
|Mar-08-18|| ||zanzibar: There's also this:
<Seirawan was rated a senior master when he left Garfield, and he had already made a small impression in chess circles. In the 1975 U.S. Open at Lincoln, Neb., he had beaten his first grandmaster, Arthur Bisguier, to applause. "I almost fell off the stage," he says. When he got home, all excited, and told his mother how well he had done, she said, "How much did you win?"
"Ah, thirty-three dollars and thirty-three cents," he said.
"Are you sure you're not going to college?" Margaret [his mom?] asked. >
|Mar-09-18|| ||Phony Benoni: I doubt Alburt researched this question, or even knew that such a question existed. He just used a source available to him -- which, in all probability was Benko's CL$R article. After all, tens of thousands had access to that, while only a few dozen had the tournament bulletins. No wonder it became the "official" version.|
Of course, Seiarawan might know. But I've asked players about this sort of situation before, and they invariably give me a strange look and ask how they can be expected to remember something that happened forty years ago.
|Mar-09-18|| ||Retireborn: <Phony Benoni> This game is in Informator, annotated by Byrne & Mednis. They give 36.Kg2, but I suppose that Benko was their likely source too.|
<z> I think it's possible that both players missed 34...Qf5, otherwise Seirawan would have gone for 34.Qe4+ Kxh6 35.Qxb7. Byrne & Mednis don't mention that either, they just give 34.Bf4 a !
|Mar-09-18|| ||zanzibar: Sticking to the score (mostly) for the moment...|
<1975-10-12 Newsday pA81 (Koltanowski)> - has 36.K-R2
But it also has Yassir instead of Yasser.
<1975-11-20 NYT p38 (R. Byrne)> - has 36.K-N2
And it has Yasser.
Bisguier, being Black probably got to keep the score, right? Hmmm...
(Good thing that both moves are about the same - chessically that is)
|Mar-09-18|| ||zanzibar: Who was the TD?
* * * * *
This excerpt has the game, and lots from Seirawan himself, and gives the "orthodox" 36.Kg2.
It also has this:
<T.K.: According to the database, your win versus Timman was your first against a world-class player. Is that correct?
Y.S.: Hmmm. I think that is correct.>
* * * * *
Koltanowski also mentions that Y.S. showed up in Lincoln an hour before the tournament began, having hitchhiked all the way from Washington state (Seattle?).
A pretty bold adventure by a 14 year-old, if true. Is it?
|Mar-09-18|| ||Phony Benoni: Th TD was Tim Redman.. Koltanowski was in town for the annual meetings, having just been elected President of USCF.|
Since Koltanowski's column appeared before Benko's article in the November CL&R, that would indicate his source was the bulletin.
|Mar-10-18|| ||zanzibar: <Phony> I have an opinion on what I'd do if I was fully in charge of the game, i.e. adopt the "orthodox" version, sourcing it to CL&R, and adding a note about the tb version.|
If Seirawan didn't pipe up in the version he basically endorsed (i.e. the elitetraining version), and there isn't a compelling reason to be non-conformant chess-wise from the other DB's, well....
Now, having looked into the business a little I sure wish the Northwest chess archives had gotten to 1975, as I'm sure they published their local-hero's game before CL&R:
One last thought - Redman is around and active, he might actually offer an informed opinion about what actually transpired (even after all these years)...
A final word - there's two original scores, White and Black, both arguably authoritative. The White score presumably goes into the tb, the Black score might have gone to the NY press via Bisguier. The two scores could conceivably be different.
ε² doesn't always work.
|Mar-10-18|| ||Phony Benoni: <Zanzibar> Thanks for all your work on this. I have to say I'm still not convinced -- for example, |
<"If Seirawan didn't pipe up in the version he basically endorsed ">
would apply to the bulletin version as well. And they did publish extensive errata. But, frankly, I doubt Seirawn read the versions carefully or was even aware of the discrepancy.
But, as they say in the NFL, in the absence of conclusive evidence the original score stands. So I'll let this be.
And now there's a sequel: it happened again!
In round 10, J Peters vs Seirawan, 1975 reached this postion after <23.Rd1>:
click for larger view
Now the bulletin gives 23...Red8, but Benko in CL&R 9november 197, p. 744) gives 23...QR-Q1 (23...Rad8)!
Here I think the bulletin version looks more likely, but let it die.
|Mar-13-18|| ||Phony Benoni: <Zanzibar: Koltanowski also mentions that Y.S. showed up in Lincoln an hour before the tournament began, having hitchhiked all the way from Washington state (Seattle?).>|
I haven't seen any mention or confirmation of that story, but I can tell you that Seirawan played a tne-move draw with a much-lower rated player in round 1.
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