< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Jul-15-07|| ||arnaud1959: I think 29.Kh2 deserves more analyse. What happens after Qg4 30.Rg1 Rxe3 31.Rxg4 Bxg4 32.Qg1 instead of Qf1? A human could have thought about this line, so it's worth to analyse.|
|Jul-15-07|| ||Marmot PFL: Looks like a typical Marshall Attack with black having pressure for the material deficit. However white is threatening b3 & c4 so black has to try something soon. His pieces are very well placed already so I look at the pawns breaks h6 or f4. h6 seems too slow to cause trouble so f4 gxf4 (forced) mabye Bh3. Now white has Kh1 and black Qg4 threatens Rxe3 etc. but white has Rg1 Qf5 Re1 repeating so if black can only draw that still beats losing. Actually he can win with Qd3! but that I didn't see. The game line with Nf1)instead of Kh1) I hardly considered as here too black clearly has at least a draw and can decide later if he wants to play for more.|
|Jul-15-07|| ||WBP: <Macwordsmith> <For example, as late as Move 34: Why couldn't White play Bd2? ("threatening" f5, and maybe g6, eventually freeing the bishop to get into the game) And if Black responds Qg4+, THEN Kf1. How does White have anything better than a perpetual? HELLLLP!> If White plays 34 Bd2, Black plays 34...Qe2 with decisive effect. The immediate threat is 35...Qd1+ followed by Re2, pinning the Queen. If 35 Qxe2, 35...Rxe2 picks up the bishop no matter what White does at that point. If White does something else--say 35 Kg2, then Black can play Qd1 or Qd3, followed by Re2. |
White's pieces are trapped behind the pawns, leaving Black with these infiltrating tactics. But they're not easy to see.
|Jul-15-07|| ||playground player: I tried 27...f4 right away, and couldn't make it work: couldn't find a way to cope with 28.Qxf4.|
|Jul-15-07|| ||Dick Brain: Anyone who figured this one through several moves in the customary .1s must surely be the second coming of Alexander Alekhine. Congratulations!|
|Jul-15-07|| ||donnybrook222: i actually found this puzzle to be rather easy as black has really no other option besides ...f4 to make any sort of headway into white's position. i think this is a fairly intuitive move but also pretty obvious in that you don't have to calculate very deeply into the combinative variations to see that white stands much better in all of them almost from the beginning.|
at any rate with that much artillery coming down on white's king why not toss a pawn? as white i wouldn't have wanted to deal with that at the board even if my opponent hadn't calcuated at all.
|Jul-15-07|| ||psmith: <MostlyAverageJoe>
I believe when you say "the line starts: <29. Kh1> Qg4 30. Rg1 Qf3 31. Re1 Qd3 ..." you mean 30. Qf5. Right?
|Jul-15-07|| ||patzer2: For today's extremely difficult Sunday puzzle, Black springs the positional sacrifice 27...f4!!, utilizing the pin on the Bishop to force the weakening deflection 28...gxf4 to demolish White's pawn cover and leave him hopelessly weak (despite his superiority in the pawn count) and unable to defend his exposed King.|
The moves which follow provide an excellent lesson on the superiority of the active Queen and Rook over the less mobile Queen and Bishop.
|Jul-15-07|| ||Kings Indian: An insane puzzle. I just gave up because i couldn't see what happened after the king goes to h2. Too deep..|
|Jul-15-07|| ||noTALent: <dzechiel: Let's look for some candidate moves:
- 27...Bh3 >
I am glad someone (better than me) also considered Bd1.
I started with 7 early candidates (f4 Bh3 Be2 Bd1 Rxe3 Ra8 Ra6), and narrowed it down to f4 or Bd1. Both seemed strong moves but neither seemed decisive. Can't remember why i dismissed Bh3.
|Jul-15-07|| ||fm avari viraf: The only move that comes to my mind is 27...f4 which allows Black to invade the King-side. 28.gxf4 Bh3 if 29.Nf3 trying to block the e-file with Ne5 then 29...Qg4+ 30.Kh2 Rxe3 31.Rxe3 Rxe3 32.Qxe3 Qg2#. Hence, instead of 32.Qxe3 32.Ne5 now Black either plays 32...Qe2 or 32...Re2 where White has bright chances for a draw.|
|Jul-15-07|| ||soberknight: I also couldn't see the problem with Qxf4 for white, though someone has posted it.|
|Jul-15-07|| ||TheIrateTurk: WOW! I got a few of the first moves in this! I couldn't really think of White's responses, but I kinda saw Black's moves.|
|Jul-15-07|| ||zepetit: Could anyone please tell me in move 16, why didn't black play Bf3 instead of Rae8?!|
|Jul-15-07|| ||Fezzik: I saw that 27...f4 gf4 Bh3 was possible, but I didn't think it was the best move because I didn't see any way to get a winning attack out of it.|
My choice was for 27...R8e7 followed by Qe8.
My logic was that White doesn't have time to defend the e-file, and any more pieces on the king side may be just that many more targets for the threatened 27...f4.
I still don't fully trust Blatny's brilliancy, but I haven't seen a refutation to it yet.
(BTW: I once had breakfast with GM Blatny. He's a very polite, quiet and genuinely nice sort. He's one of the good guys in chess!)
|Jul-15-07|| ||frenchfan: 28.Qxf4 Rf8 29.Qc7 Qe8 30.Nf1 Bh3
|Jul-15-07|| ||alexandrovm: f4 is a nice break thru|
|Jul-15-07|| ||Crowaholic: I didn't have the time to try and solve this one, but at least I quickly figured out 27. ..f4 28. gxf4 Bh3 was very nice - the pawn sac opens up the g file for the queen's check, the WB is still pinned and Bh3 allows Black to spoil the move that White really wants to play - Nf1 with Bxf1. White is theoretically up a pawn (two after the sac) but this is no help given the bad position of White's pieces. Since my analysis was otherwise very shallow, I cannot in any way claim to have solved this puzzle, but it's certainly much better than yesterday where I spent at least 5 times longer on the puzzle and would not even see the first move.|
|Jul-15-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <psmith: <MostlyAverageJoe>
I believe when you say "the line starts: <29. Kh1> Qg4 30. Rg1 Qf3 31. Re1 Qd3 ..." you mean 30. Qf5. Right?>|
Yes, thanks for the correction ...
|Jul-15-07|| ||Gilmoy: I was in LAX on laptop battery, hence not as much time to doodle. |
<ForeverYoung: 27 ... Qf7-e7> That's the line I saw, but I noticed <Alphastar>'s 28.Nf3 Bxf3 29.Qxf3 Qe7 30.Kf2 holding. White also has Nf1, hence Black's Bh3 to remove it, and also clear g4 for the Q. I missed 27..f4 to deflect the g-pawn, leaving a clear field for the Q to harass White's K.
<zepetit: Could anyone please tell me in move 16, why didn't black play Bf3 instead of Rae8?!> 16.Qd3 stops the mate threat (Bf3 17.Qf1), and White's inevitable Nd2 will trade off the B, or make Black waste 2 tempi. Since there's no easy mate, Black prefers to just develop more pieces.
|Jul-15-07|| ||tal lover: <fezzik> as you I saw R8e7 followed by Qe8 as a powerful pin. But when I try this line against my computer he find some well timed defenses. I see a lot of people saying that the only option was f4, but R8e7 was for me the most logical move, anyone who says that the only option was f4 and play f4 overtheboard without seen what Blatny saw is sacrificing a pawn for no compensation.|
|Jul-15-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <Fezzik: I saw that 27...f4 gf4 Bh3 was possible, but I didn't think it was the best move because I didn't see any way to get a winning attack out of it.
My choice was for 27...R8e7 followed by Qe8>|
This was also the choice of Hiarcs, until the analysis hit 21 plies deep (when it discovered f4). I forced it into R8e7 line, and after 24 plies, this appears to be the best continuation: 27. ... R8e7 28. Kg2 Qe8 29. Nf1
The above evaluates at +0.00 (after 29 plies from 29. Nf1), and is likely a draw. The suggested continuation is 29... Qd7 30. Kh2 Qa4 31. Qg2 Qc6 32. Qd2 Qe8 33. b3 Qb5 34. Qc2 Qe8 35. Qg2 Qb5 36. Qc2 ... - looks pretty much like useless shuffling.
BTW, after pondering on the puzzle position for about an hour, Hiarcs finally did figure out that 27 ... f4 is the best move. Since I started doing puzzle evaluations, this is the longest that it took for the software to find the solution. There is something in the position there that makes it difficult for Hiarcs. It would be interesting to see if the other engines have the same problem.
|Jul-16-07|| ||PAWNTOEFOUR: all i know is that monday's puzzle better be realllllll easy ......after this mess!...all you guys that couldn't find f4,don't feel bad......shredder,after 115 minutes,and over a billion and a half nodes hasn't found f4 either|
|Jul-16-07|| ||PAWNTOEFOUR: i should have read <mostlyaveragejoe's> comment first.......shredder's stuck on r8e7,to|
|Jul-16-07|| ||kevin86: What an odd position! Black was smart enough to find a way to penetrate despite white's domination of the dark squares. It looked like they were playing checkers of opposite colors.|
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