< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 3 ·
|Apr-15-06|| ||SneechLatke: 40.Ke2 Re4+ winning the queen or 40.Kg1 Rg4+ 41.Bg3 Rxg3+ 42.Kf2 Qg2#.|
I like how Blatny opened up white's kingside with 27...f4!, poking holes on the light squares which could not be fixed and also opening up space for his rook, even though it meant he would have only a rook against + 4 s. Very brave decision, and it certainly paid off!
|Jul-15-07|| ||wouldpusher: All White pieces on black squares, all Black pieces on white squares at the puzzle diagram.|
INSANE!!! (I didn't get the solution again.)
|Jul-15-07|| ||Gregor Samsa Mendel: I've seen a couple of these Marshall Attack games where white manages to hang on for a while and even exchange some pieces, but can't quite shake black off. Eventually white succumbs after 40 moves or so.|
|Jul-15-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: Darn, missed it. Given white's pawn superiority, I was looking either for a draw, or for some desperate attack.|
I actually contemplated 27... f4, only to discard it as not very promising (I was looking for a continuation with rook attack on the f-file, and it did not lead anywhere).
A while later, it occurred to me that Bh3, combined with the aforementioned attack, seemed to be quite powerful, as it allowed for white Q to come down to 1st rank with a check and wreak some havoc, so I decided to go for 27... Bh3 and peek at the solution.
The preliminary f4 to disassemble the pawn structure is insane, indeed, but I am still not sure that it should've yielded much more than a draw.
|Jul-15-07|| ||willyfly: as part of my new strategy I allow no more than 20 minutes <timed> to solve puzzles - it's just about then that the hallucinations start to kick in|
-White has 3 s and a minor piece for Black's
-s are of opposite colors and both are bad
27...b8 28 b4 c6 29 c4 dxc4 looks interesting
27...g7 to bring the s to the h-file
27...h6 to open things up
27...f4 28 gxf4 has potential
time's up - I lose - let's look
I'm pleased it was something I considered but I have to admit I don't see the threat in 28...h3 nor the defensive aspect of 29 f1 but maybe someone will comment on that
|Jul-15-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <willyfly: I don't see the threat in 28...Bh3 nor the defensive aspect of 29 Nf1 >|
The actual threat has never materialized. I believe it was for the black to play Qg4, creating a mating threat on g2, and allowing an easy win of a piece on the e-file. From the white's side, Nf1 would be followed with Nh2, chasing the black Q away before the black had a tempo to win anything.
<MAJ: rook attack on the f-file> I meant e-file, of course.
|Jul-15-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: BTW, another way to counter the Qg4 threat would be for white to play Kh1 or Kh2, allowing for Rg1 to chase the black Q. I'll unleash my silicon monster on that one.|
|Jul-15-07|| ||Isolated Pawn: This is how I approach a Sunday puzzle; I look at a couple of ridiculous sacrafices, play around with each idea for about 10 seconds each, then give up. Anyone else use the same technique?|
|Jul-15-07|| ||dzechiel: Level insane. Black to play. White has three pawns for the exchange, but all of black's pieces are very active and he's doubled on the e-file.|
Let's look for some candidate moves:
OK, I spent a long time here and found bupkiss. Nada. Zilch.
I decided to look and I'm SO glad that I didn't spend more time tonight. This seems to be the toughest position and most involved solution that I have seen on ChessGames.com.
|Jul-15-07|| ||SwitchingQuylthulg: I got that one quite well, although I had 33...Re3 instead. Doesn't that work just as well, though? Black has numerous threats and he should get a Q+2P vs. B+6P, is that won?|
|Jul-15-07|| ||maxxowar: I saw 27..f4 gxf4 28 Bh3, not Nf1. I often have ideas and insight for the winning moves of saturdays' and sundays' puzzles, but more often i dont solve wednedays' and thurdays'...shame on me.|
|Jul-15-07|| ||4i4mitko: I saw f4 Bh3 and Qg4 with the idea of taking on e3 and mate on g2 but I didnt go in details|
|Jul-15-07|| ||apostolis: willyfly is right as after Bh3 the correct move is 29. Kh2 and there is no more attacking lines.
29. ... Qg4
30. Rg1 Rxe3
31. Rxg4 Bxg4
32. Qf1 Re1
33. Kg3 Rxf1 34. Nxf1
and then it is a finale with two white passed pawns.
|Jul-15-07|| ||marcwordsmith: I am sooooo out of my depth on this one. I do not understand how this was a forced win for Black. |
For example, as late as Move 34: Why couldn't White play Bd2? ("threatening" f5, and maybe g6, eventually freeing the bishop to get into the game) And if Black responds Qg4+, THEN Kf1. How does White have anything better than a perpetual? HELLLLP!
I really don't like feeling this discombobulated! It's one thing if a brilliant combination with multiple possibile variations stuns me with its ingenuity and genius. But quite another if I can't even figure out what's going on!
Oh wait, wait, I just figured out the answer to my question. If 34. Bd2, then Qe2! wins white's bishop after the forced exchange of queens.
I'm going to post this anyway. I refuse to let all this typing go for naught.
But hey, here's a simple question: Why did Black have to sac the exchange on move 25??
|Jul-15-07|| ||marcwordsmith: Playing it through again, I see how all the moves are forced. Amazing!|
I still don't understand the exchange sac on move 25 though.
|Jul-15-07|| ||Mendrys: I guessed 27...f4 just because white is up so many pawns for the exchange black must attack soon and must open some lines to the king. f4 does the trick here but I did not get 28. gxf4 Bh3. |
Minimal credit for me on this puzzle but since it's a Sunday , I'll take it.
|Jul-15-07|| ||not yet a patzer: It is so wonderful to see this level of play. It is what I love about chess. But after about 15 minutes of thinking fiercely about this puzzle I had to stop, for I noticed my brain was running out my ears.|
I'm melting - I'm melting!
|Jul-15-07|| ||goldfarbdj: I managed to see that f4 was a strong move. I thought about Bd2 next, but after Rxd2 Qg3+ didn't really see anything concrete, so I decided that Bh3 was probably best. I was gratified to see it played in the game. I didn't go much beyond that, and I'm not sure whether I should count that as solved or not....|
|Jul-15-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: This game is a real killer for software. Hiarcs is way out of its depth here.|
After 27. ... f4 28.gxf4 Bh3, Hiarcs evaluates the position as a slight advantage for the white (+0.09, with 29.Kh1 as the best move - 18 plies).
As soon as the Kh1 move is entered, the valuation drops to -1.50 and keeps falling; and after 20 plies becomes (-2.05). I have not seen this kind of behavior ever before today, but in this game it occured a number of times when I was doing the sliding analysis.
The line starts: <29. Kh1> Qg4 30. Rg1 Qf3 31. Re1 Qd3 ...
My other idea from an earlier post is also not that hot: <29. Kh2> Qg4 30. Rg1 ... (-1.79, 20-ply)
<29. Nf1> Bxf1 etc, as in the game, is second best, evaluating at (-1.87, 20-ply)
In a complicated position like this one, the above valuations are not necessarily guarantees of a victory for the black, though. White's pawns are dangerous, and there may be some way of forcing the black to sac on of its pieces.
|Jul-15-07|| ||not yet a patzer: It's comforting to know that Hiarcs had trouble, too.|
|Jul-15-07|| ||willyfly: <apostolis: willyfly is right> hey alright - hooray for me!|
|Jul-15-07|| ||Takya Kotov: I did not really try to solve this (Sundays are usually a bit tough) so, being lazy, I just played it through - and decided that the whole thing was totally mad and even Blatny did not really know what he was doing with any great confidence. However, on playing it through again slowly, the solution is actually quite logical and most decent players, with enough time, would probably work it out. The e-file pin is really hard to break, Nf1 & Bd2 being the only real possibilty: hence black's Bh3. Once the black Queen comes into g4, white just cannot cover everything.|
This is actually a very good practical puzzle and not just a bit of mayhem to provide a bit of Sunday fun.
|Jul-15-07|| ||ForeverYoung: Did anyone else come up with the idea of 27 ... Qf7-e7 utilizing the great pin black has going on the "e" file?|
|Jul-15-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: <willyfly: <apostolis: willyfly is right> hey alright - hooray for me!>|
Alas, <apostolis>' line is not that rosy. After driving Hiarcs for a while longer, 29. Kh2 dropped its value quite a bit, to (-2.46). Admittedly, I did not explore Nf1 or Kh1 to the same depth, though, and it would surprise me if they did not show a similar effect. However, when the valuation is increasing with the analysis depth, it is usually a sign of heading for a win rather than for a draw.
After <the line given by apostolis>, this is the best I got for both sides:
<29. Kh2 Qg4 30. Rg1 Rxe3 31. Rxg4 Bxg4 32. Qf1 Re1 33. Kg3 Rxf1 34. Nxf1> h5 35. gxh6 Be2 36. Nd2 Kh7 37. f5 Kxh6 (-3.00, 19-ply):
click for larger view
Here, a couple of plausible continuations. One as below:
38. Nb3 Bd3 39. Kf4 Re4+ 40. Kg3 Kh5 41. f6 Rg4+ 42. Kf3 Be4+ 43. Ke3 Kg6 44. Nc5 Kxf6 45. b4 Rxh4 46. b5 Ke7 47. b6 Kd6 48. b7 Kc7 49. Ke2 Rh2+ 50. Ke3 Rc2 51. Kf4 Rxc3 52. Ke5 Rxc5 53. b8=Q+ Kxb8 (tablebase win for the black).
The above is probably the third or fourth line I've obtained with sliding forward/backward analysis. Black wins all of them.
Clearly, however, there was some opportunity for the white to put up more resistance.
Fascinating game. I'd better log off, or I'll spend way too much time ...
|Jul-15-07|| ||Alphastar: <ForeverYoung: Did anyone else come up with the idea of 27 ... Qf7-e7 utilizing the great pin black has going on the "e" file?>|
I looked at it but it seemed to me that white could counter the pin with Nf3 followed by Ne5. if Bxf3, then after Qxf3 Qe7 Kf2 black can't really start anything while white can slowly undo the deadly pin on the e-file. (Qf3-e2-d2-c1 and Bd2)
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