< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 5 OF 6 ·
|Feb-24-12|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: I also considered Nxg7, but this looks to be the most complicated of the winning options.|
|Feb-24-12|| ||Shelter417: I also thought Rxf6, although I didn't calculate much beyond that. Funny that the "best" move is also the one that most people instinctively saw. Honestly, Nxg7 just seems like such a weird move in this position...|
Against Crafty, you can also try 1. Rxf6 Bc8 2. Qxd5 Bxf5 3. Qxf5 Qxf5 4. Rxf5, leaving white up a pawn and a bishop.
|Feb-24-12|| ||Limpin Kt: <chessttcamps> good analysis man! I missed the solution but counted on Rf6 to win. The continuation i worked up was wrong. I didn't count black can decline rook sac on f6 <fsr> i liked the move preference list. Good work!|
|Feb-24-12|| ||Limpin Kt: <LTJ> hats off to ur analysis <especially because u didn't use engines> i figured the move g4 but didn't see all u gave analysis.|
|Feb-24-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: <Limpin Kt> Thanks for the compliment, man!|
I appreciate it!
|Feb-24-12|| ||JohnBoy: <FSR: Interesting treatment of 9...c5. I don't think it's theoretically well regarded, but people often play moves like that against me in Internet blitz games. I've always exchanged on c5, then played Bf5, with indifferent results. I like Slipak's approach of leaving the bishop on d3, not letting Black exchange off his bad bishop.> ditto. I never want to part with the d3 bishop without causing black some problems. Sometimes blockading the isolated d pawn is sufficient.|
|Feb-24-12|| ||FSR: <sevenseaman: <gofer> <1 Rxf6 Bc8 2 g4 wins the queen
This should be enough...>
Funnily, it does. Thanks genius, I never thought of playing g4 here.>
True enough. At first, I thought Black could save the queen (albeit with a dead-lost, piece-down position) with 2...Qh3. But <gofer> is right, White can pretty much win the queen by force, and annihilate Black, with 3.Nxg7 Kxg7 4.Qd4! (stronger than the also winning 4.Rh6 Qxh6) threatening 5.Rh6+. If then 5...Qxf3, 6.Bh6+ wins the Q, while 5...Kg8 6.Bh6! (threatening 7.Rg6+ and 8.Qg7#) wins the king instead. Of course, there are lots of winning lines with an extra piece, such as 3.Nh6+ Kh8 (3...gxh6 4.Rxh6 wins the Q) 4.Nxf7+ Rxf7 (4...Kg8 5.Ng5) 5.Rxf7.
|Feb-24-12|| ||James D Flynn: There appears to be 2 winning lines beginning with 30.Rxf6 gxf6. I should also observe that that Black can avoid taken the R for a move because it is tied to the defense of the N on f5:
A. 30.Qxd5 Kh8 (seems the only defense to the N check on e7 followed by Qxh5) 31. Bh6 renews the threat If 31
..Rg8 32.Bg7+ Rxg7 33.Qxa8+ Rg8 34.Qxg8+Kxg8 35. Rb8+ Bc8 36.Rxc8# but Black can bail out for a lost ending with 31
..Qg6 32.Bg7+ Kg8 33.Ne7+ Kxg7 34.Nxg6 hxg6.
B. 30.g4 Qh3 35.Qd4 Qxf3 36.Nh6+ Kg7 37.g5 and if the R on f8 moves White will mate on f7 else Kg6 38.Qxf6+ Kh5 39.g6 and Black will be mated on g5 .
C. The possibility Black will decline the R: by say 30
Bc4 31.Qd4 and if gxf6 32.Qxf6 forces the Q to defend f7 whereupon it is lost fro a minor piece, so Rfe8 for an escape square then 32.Rh6 wins the Q or mates.|
|Feb-24-12|| ||James D Flynn: I have just seen the game continuation so there is yet a 4th winning method I never thought of giving up the beautiful N on f5 for anything other than a Q.|
|Feb-24-12|| ||viking78: Thanks again LTJ, appreciate the time you invested to lighten me up. Hope to solve one day a Friday or Saturday :), cause Sunday is waaaaaay out of my league.|
|Feb-24-12|| ||Nemesistic: I spent 10 mins looking, but i was certain this started with 29.Rxf6 i never even looked at another move so i'll write this off as a fail..|
But lesson learnt all the same.
|Feb-24-12|| ||FSR: <James D Flynn> According to Fritz, as cited by <Once>, there are <six> winning moves. Even the quiet 29.Qc2, letting Black stew in his own juice, wins:|
<Once: Fritzie prefers:
29. Rxf6 (+8.32)
29. Ne7+ (+6.47)
29. g4 (+5.90)
29. Nh6+ (+4.3)
29. Qc2 (+4.13)
29. Nxg7 (+3.30)>
|Feb-24-12|| ||ZachSears: I saw 29.Ne7+ Kh8 etc. as well as 29.Rxf6 gxf6 etc. After some analysis without the engine I started it up as I figured I missed something when I saw what Slipak played. Turns out I was ok, but there are some tricky moves later that could lead to some complicated positions which are easy to make mistakes with. For me 29.Ne7 seemed to lead to less complicated positions later.|
|Feb-24-12|| ||Nemesistic: So even Fritz gives 29.Rxf6 as its first choice, and Nxg7 as its sixth choice!! I could see Rxf6 was still winning, but i personally wouldn't have beaten a GM with it.. Amazing what these engines can see though..|
|Feb-24-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: <viking78> Hey man, don't mention it: I'm glad I could help you out with that.|
|Feb-24-12|| ||scormus: Seems like quite a tough one for a non-weekend. Like a fair few others I chose 29 Nxg7 and reckoned after some searching it would be enough to win, though not absolutely killing. I didnt have 30 Qd4 though|
I really think 29 Bxg7 was the natural puzzle move, so maybe thats why he played it ... so it would appear on CG POTD some time in the future ;)
|Feb-24-12|| ||ajile: I also had 29.Rxf6 gf 30.Qxd5 with multiple threats.|
|Feb-24-12|| ||bachbeet: Didn't come close. That was a fine finish by Slipak.|
|Feb-24-12|| ||ajile: 29.Rxf6 gf 30.Qxd5
click for larger view
Analysis by Rybka 3 32-bit :
1. (3.82): 2...Kh8 3.Bh6 Qg6 4.Bg7+ Qxg7 5.Nxg7 Kxg7 6.Qd6 Rfd8 7.Qg3+ Kf8 8.Qh4 Bd3 9.Rb6 Kg8 10.Qxf6
2. (7.54): 2...Qg6 3.Ne7+
Black can't avoid losing the queen.
|Feb-24-12|| ||Memethecat: <PizzatheHutWould someone be so kind as to post the numerical engine evaluation for the line <29. Rxf6 gxf6 30. g4 Qh3 31. Qd4 Qxf3 32. Qxf6 Qg4+ 33. Bg3>?> |
I've not got the strongest engine but it should do.
29. Rxf6 <8.64> (best move by far) gxf6 30. g4 <11.29>
Qh3 <15.67> (Q sac Qg6 is better for black 10.88)
31. Qd4 <20.05> Qxf3 <300.00 # in 6> (Q sac Qh4 is better for black 28.54 basically the engine has given up)
32. Qxf6 Qg4+ <300.00 # in 5>
33. Bg3 <12.12> (bad move but your still the equivalent of 12 pawns ahead. Best: 33Kf2 Qxf5 34Rg1+ Qg6 35Be5 Qxg1+ 36Kxg1 h6 37Qg7#
|Feb-24-12|| ||chrisowen: <F6> is the key yes my lord I fan obtuse rot qh3! Ello ding QGD in gentle early it explode in tie-back rook b1 c1 ratify queen in h4 any plug for 27 qf2 sock it to him?|
|Feb-24-12|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: <Limpin Kt> Thanks for your comments.|
It turned out that my line B (which Crafty went straight into) was easier than for me to win than the line I mentioned in at the end of the first post. Crafty improves with 30... Bf1! which should still be won by white with correct play.
|Feb-24-12|| ||Memethecat: OH...MY...GOD!!! CAN NOBODY ELSE SEE WHAT'S GOING ON HERE? |
Does anybody else have a theory about today's puzzle? Why would CG pick this game?
On the face of it this game wouldn't even make the cutting room floor.
1.Games have a single correct answer.
2.Right answer = mate or won material
<1> This game has many correct answers, but the move played was not one of them, in fact white is way ahead 9.49 (an enormous lead), 29Nxg7 reduces the lead to 3.55 30Qd4 slashes the lead even more 2.07 and its not until black blunders 36Bc8+ that white can win....
<2>Correct answer= well the the text answer = nothing. No material, in fact white is down a piece. Mate? nope. Whites moves do nothing to force mate, almost the opposite in fact. Black blunders 8 moves after 29Nxg7 & that's how white wins.
Does anybody else think this a bit strange?
I can't be the only one to see it, can I?
|Feb-24-12|| ||Marmot PFL: 29 Rxf6 gf then either 30 Qxd5 or g4 would have been my choice in this complex position, though I couldn't back it up in much detail.|
30 Qxd5 threatens Ne7+ winning the queen, which has no moves to escape. If 30...Kh8 31 Bh6 with many threats.
30 g4 protects the knight and forces Qh3. This attack f3 but after Qd4 white threatens Qxf6 and mate on g7.
I have several good memories of winning games with exchange sacs like this on a N defending its king, and will usually play it given the chance.
|Feb-24-12|| ||BOSTER: No doubt that black position is lost because black queen is almost trapped, and white knight has the best position on f5.|
And another reason is black has a bishop which can not protect all weaknesses on dark squares.
But the win is not so fast how was described by <Ray Keene> or <dzechiel>.
After 29.Rxf6 game can continue like this 29...gxf6
31.N e7+ Kg7
32.Nxg6 fxg6 and black can continue fighting.
I would play 29.Nxg7.
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