|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Nov-04-05 | | ewenardus: <eaglewing> After 15.Rxe7+ Kd8 16.Bg5 Re8 Be6 17.Qxb7 Rc8 18.Rxe6! is definitely winning. For example: 18...fe6 Qxg7 is curtains Therefore, I think that the best continuation is 15.Rxe7+ Kd8 16.Bg5 Bb4 (or Bc6) 17.Rxf7 arriving at the same position you posted, though the secuence was different (16.Rxf7). Still, maybe there is a better move than 17.Rxf7 I'm enjoying our analysis! |
 |
Nov-04-05
 | | patzer2: <eaglewing: Is there a line to crush the decline 15. Rxe7 Kd8?> After <15. Rxe7 Kd8?>, White's strongest is 16. Ne5! when play might continue 15...Kd8 16. Ne5 Qxd4 17. Qxb7 Kxe7 18. Nc6+  . However, the 16. Rxd7! and 16. Bg5! alternatives you discussed with <eaglewing> are just as decisive. In fact it is difficult not to find a reasonable move that doesn't win for White. Fritz 8 gives nearly 20 different winning lines here. |
|
| Nov-04-05 | | eaglewing: <ewenardus> You are right. Guess I did not really look into Qb7 Rc8 due to the winning line <euripides> gave. I guess 16. Bf4 could win, too. And now, finally, we have convinced ourselves successfully, that Geller chose the best of the doomed defenses
after missing Bronstein's threats.
That's fine, I hope to join analyzing such sidelines with you again. |
|
Nov-04-05
 | | Gypsy: <15...Kd8> 16.Rxf7 Rg8 (16...Ne8(h6) 17.Rxd7+) 17.Bg5 Qf5 18.Qxd5 Qxd5 19.Nxd5 ... and Black can safely resign. |
|
Nov-04-05
| | patzer2: The decisive mistake for Geller was 13...Nf6??, allowing the winning 14. Re5! Instead, the defensive move 13...Bc6! = holds the position. |
|
| Nov-04-05 | | eaglewing: <patzer2> I would not like 15...Kd8 16. Ne5 Qxd4 for several reasons. The possibility Nc6 is just one. What does Fritz give against the 15...Kd8 16. Ne5 Qf5 defense? Just curious. |
|
Nov-04-05
| | patzer2: <eaglewing> After <15...Kd8 16. Ne5 Qf5>, Fritz 8 indicates White wins with 17. Qb4! Rf8 18. Qd6 Rc8 19. g4! . |
|
Nov-04-05
 | | kevin86: A neat change in position,if not in tactics-here the rook is sac-ed on e7,not h7.White gains a queen and pawn for rook and knight-a slight,but decisive advantage. |
|
| Nov-04-05 | | ewenardus: <eaglewing> Yes, I've hada great fun too. One last line: 15.Rxe7 Kd8 16.Bg5 Re8 17.Qb6+! Then:
17...Kc8 18.Nxd5! if 18...Nxd5 19.Rxe8+ Bxe8 20.Qd8++ if 18...Kb8 19.Bf4+ Kc8 20.Qc7++ So black must play 18...Qc2 or Qc4 and then 19.Rc1 is game over! 17...Kxe7 18.Nxd5+ Kf8 and now 19.Nxf6! is a killer. Check this variation: 19...Bxf6 20.Qxf6 Re6 21.Qh8++ or 19...Bc6 20.Qc5+ Re7 21.Nd5 Bxd5 22.Bxe7+ Ke8 23.Qxd5 Kxe7 24.Qxb7+ Kf6 25.Qxa8 So I definitely think Geller chose the best of the worse lines! This last one has to be analysed a bit more, but I thought it was interesting. 16.Bf4 looks good yep, and a someone else posted practically anything white plays here looks good! Maybe even 16.Kh1 wins?! Hope to see you again sometime! |
|
| Nov-04-05 | | snowie1: The one move that puzzled me most was Bf8. I couldn't make any sense of it. But finally, I see that it was to rid himself of that pesky N coming (he thought) to c5. Imaging his utter surprise when Rxc6! |
|
| Nov-04-05 | | LIFE Master AJ: <patzer2
<"The decisive mistake for Geller was 13...Nf6??, allowing the winning 14. Re5! Instead, the defensive move 13...Bc6! = holds the position.> > I must agree with you.
(Although two question marks might be a bit harsh, however ... not totally out of line.) <JohnBoy>
I could not answer your question ... easily or quickly. I wound up annotating this game. (I sent it in to this website, hopefully they will use the notes.) <all> Good analysis! (several different posts) |
|
| Nov-04-05 | | LIFE Master AJ: And to be completely honest, when I was just playing through this game (casually), I did not realize that ...Nf6? was the problem. (It left the Queen with no good squares.) |
|
| Nov-04-05 | | Montreal1666: 14)Rxe7 should work as well |
|
| Nov-04-05 | | aw1988: <Montreal> With what? Nxd5 cannot be played, because the queen is guarding the pawn... |
|
| Nov-04-05 | | LIFE Master AJ: Fritz 8.0 gives: 14.Rxe7+ Kxe7; 15.Qb4+ Kd8; 16.Qxb7 Rc8; 17.Qxa6 Ne4; and shows Black to be winning. So how does 14.Rxe7 win? (Please explain.)
|
|
| Nov-04-05 | | Saruman: "(Although two question marks might be a bit harsh, however ... not totally out of line.)"-AJ When youre at it: how comes that you overuse exclamation marks yourself? |
|
| Nov-04-05 | | EmperorAtahualpa: Rxd7 was the obvious move, given the theme of the week, but hats off to those who found <14.Re5>! I didn't get it. Both <Rxe7> and the follow-up move <Nxd5+> were standing out to me, but in order for <Nxd5+> to work, the prerequisite move is <Re5>, which I didn't see. A very nice puzzle of the day! |
|
| Nov-04-05 | | LIFE Master AJ: <s> Who knows?!?!??!!!!!! |
|
Nov-04-05
 | | Richard Taylor: I found the main moves of this - so
14. Re5 Qd3 15. R:e7+
Now I decided that if now Ke7 16. N:d5 + 17. N:d5 Q:d3 and say 18 Nb4 Qa3 so the position was fairly easy to win (The trouble is there are so many move here!)
The problem was - what if 15 ...Kd8 or f8 (I noted Kf8 but forgot to look at it) So then I may (probably) have played 16 R:f7 Rg8 17 Bg5 Qf5 18 Q:b7 Rc8 19. N:d5 But I was looking also at 16 R:f7 Rg8 17 Q:b7 Rc8 and then 18. N:d5 but Black had or has 18. ...Qb5 stopping that I thought. |
|
Nov-04-05
| | Richard Taylor: < snowie1: The one move that puzzled me most was Bf8. I couldn't make any sense of it. But finally, I see that it was to rid himself of that pesky N coming (he thought) to c5. Imaging his utter surprise when Rxc6! > I looked at that but Bronstein is winning if say Rae8 23 Nc5 Ree7 24. N:a6 or 23. ... Rd6 24. N:b7 or 24 Na6 and then the Rook sacs on c6 - White had a pawn and a stronger position |
|
Nov-04-05
| | Richard Taylor: <ewenardus: <eaglewing> Yes, I've hada great fun too. One last line:
15.Rxe7 Kd8 16.Bg5 Re8 17.Qb6+! Then:
17...Kc8 18.Nxd5! if 18...Nxd5 19.Rxe8+ Bxe8 20.Qd8++ if 18...Kb8 19.Bf4+ Kc8 20.Qc7++ So black must play 18...Qc2 or Qc4 and then 19.Rc1 is game over! 17...Kxe7 18.Nxd5+ Kf8 and now 19.Nxf6! is a killer. Check this variation: 19...Bxf6 20.Qxf6 Re6 21.Qh8++ or 19...Bc6 20.Qc5+ Re7 21.Nd5 Bxd5 22.Bxe7+ Ke8 23.Qxd5 Kxe7 24.Qxb7+ Kf6 25.Qxa8> This is great anaylsis - 16 Bg5 is a geat move but what if after 16....Re8 17. R:d7+ !?! K:d7 18. Q:b7+
or 18. Ne5+ R:e5 19. d:e5 seems to be winning fairly easily |
|
Nov-04-05
| | Richard Taylor: 9. ...Q:e5 is a very bad move it gives White time (10 Nc3) and opens lines agaisnt his own King (11. Re1). |
|
| Nov-04-05 | | LIFE Master AJ: <RT>
You mean 9...QxP/e4, (in your last post)?
BTW, I annotated this game and sent it in to this website. Taking on e4 wasn't the bad move. (Risky, but not necessarily losing.) And there was one dubious move and one really bad move - 13...Nf6? - that cost Black the game. (Fritz seems to show that 13...Bc6 is about equal.) |
|
| Nov-13-05 | | LIFE Master AJ: Since it does not appaer that CG wants to use any of the analysis that I have sent them ... I subjected this game to several hours of analysis one afternoon. I believe I determined that 11...d5?! was dubious and that 13...Nf6? was the losing move. [It also appears that 22...Bf8?; ('??') was a blunder, and allowed White a tactical shot that ended the game.] |
|
| Nov-14-05 | | Averageguy: <LMAJ> Instead of criticizing moves, would you suggest any better ones? |
|
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
sac: 15.Rxe7+