< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|May-18-05|| ||RookFile: So, I agree, Nxf7 is the move.
But does 20. Ng5 do anything?
e.g. 20... Rf8 21. Ne x f7 or
or 20... Nxe5 21. fxe5, hitting
the knight and h7.
|May-18-05|| ||queensknight: Oh, "The" Queen sacrafice...|
|May-18-05|| ||trumbull0042: It seems like 20. Ng5 could give White a few options. What do the computer programs say about that move?|
|May-18-05|| ||WannaBe: <trumbull0042>
if 20. ♘g5 ♘h8
21. ♖c1 a5
22. ♖ff1 cxd4
23. cxd4 ♕d6
24. ♗e3 h6
|May-18-05|| ||Shokwave: Nice smothered mate. I missed this one; I only saw this line as a draw by repition, missed saccing the queen to smother.|
|May-18-05|| ||Ernest van der Sar: <chessgames.com> Hi I am quite new here. Following the kibitzing now and then. No offense, but I do not understand why you picked this puzzle to solve. It's clear that 20...Kxf7?? is one of the worst moves there is. I believe that puzzles should not contain utter blundering by one player. After 20...Nxe4 21.Nxd8 21...Bh4, white has probably winning advantage, but black is not being ridiculous to continue the game.|
|May-18-05|| ||nasmichael: Sometimes brilliant games are assists (sometimes blunders, in early games :-) ) by the opponents in those games. Moreover, blunder or not, when the game stands as a part of chess culture/history, the soundness of the move matters less than the role the game plays in chess history. So relax, <Ernest van der Sar>, the game is not posted to insult your intellect--and remember, not everyone has the strength of your board vision. I work with kids, many of whom would never have considered your line. In fact they would have missed it altogether. (Many adults would have too.) And to use this game is instructive in showing what is possible, and what also is <not> so desirable if you are on the receiving end of a move such as 20. Nxf7--the game shows what to avoid as much as suggesting what to do.|
|May-18-05|| ||Zaius: <Ernest van der Sar> But 20...Kxf7 is not the move you have to guess. The move you have to guess is 20.Nxf7. In puzzles like this, you must find the best move given the position, what the player's opponent did in the game is independent of what the best move is for the puzzle.|
In other words, guess white's move only, don't guess white's move and black's reply.
|May-18-05|| ||RookFile: Interesting point about 20. Ng5 Nh8.
I never visualized Nh8.... white
has to have an edge, but maybe 20. Nxf7 is better.
|May-18-05|| ||Calli: "Mr. Owen plays, as a rule, far superior games to this one, which is one of the worst specimens of his we have ever seen." - Leopold Hoffer|
|May-18-05|| ||ThomYorke: About the quote of the day: I don´t think that prostitutes like to do their job.|
|May-19-05|| ||kevin86: Mr. Owen-not UN Owen. Nothing on the man-it was a take off on the Agatha Christie novel.|
|May-19-05|| ||Ernest van der Sar: <Zaius> There is line above the puzzle that says: White/Black to play and win. Solving a puzzle does not mean 1 move only. Certainly not if the situation after that 1 move is far from clear. Do you feel like having solved the puzzle by only finding 20.Nxf7? I wouldn't...|
|May-19-05|| ||Ernest van der Sar: <Nasmichael> <the game is not posted to insult your intellect> My aim is ofcourse not to point out my intellect, as far as I have any at all...I am just saying that I rather see forced puzzles, in which white/black is simply forced to play a certain move. In this game the only one who is forced, is the one who has to solve the puzzle. One has to assume that black simply takes the knight...Thinking thàt way, you could also suggest 20...Qxf4, assuming white will not take the queen and play for instance 21.h3...This might sound ridiculous, but as situations in chess are not always as they seem, I do not see why 20...Kxf7 is less ridiculous than 20...Qxf4 for instance. Only because 20.Kxf7 very temporarily means 2 pawns up?...furthermore I am quite relaxed already.|
|May-26-05|| ||patzer2: Couldn't resist adding 20. Nxf7!! to my demolition of pawn structure collection. Of course the very ending involves a discovered check with a simple Queen mate or Knight smothered mate theme.|
|May-26-05|| ||patzer2: Of course the computers had to spoil the fun with a better defense in 20...Nxe4!?, giving White the advantage but not leaving Black without some practical drawing chances:|
Fritz 8 gives 20...Nxe4!? 21. Nxd8 Bh4 22. Bxe4 Bxf2+ 23. Kxf2 Bxe4 24. Qxe4 Qxd8 25. Re1 cxd4 26. cxd4 Re7 27. Kg1 Qd5 28. g3 Kf7 29. Kf2 Qxe4 30. Rxe4 Rc7 31. Re2 Ne7 (+0.78 @ 15 depth & 1141 kN/s).
|May-26-05|| ||patzer2: Black's mistake was 19...Nf6? After 19...Rf8= Black seems to hold the position with even chances:|
19... Rf8!? 20. Qh5 cxd4 21. cxd4 a5 22. Rc1 Qb8 23. Rf3 Bb4 24. Bxb4 axb4 25. Qh3 Nf6 26. Nxf6+ gxf6 27. Nc6 Bxc6 28. Rxc6 Rxd4 29. f5 Rh4 30. Qg3 Qxg3 31. Rxg3 =.
|May-27-05|| ||Ernest van der Sar: <Patzer2> Don't give all the credit to the computer! As if 20...Nxe4 was thàt hard to find. I think every reasonable chessplayer (I am absolutely not an expert) starts looking for alternative moves once he notices a move fails already on the next move of his opponent.|
|Apr-10-06|| ||MorphyMatt: The nxf7 sac looks kinda like Alekhine vs Von Feldt, 1916|
|Mar-26-15|| ||consul: Nice pun: the combination works even before 19 .. ♘f6.|
|Mar-26-15|| ||consul: Ohps, I was wrong, it doesn't work… :/|
|Mar-26-15|| ||morfishine: Yawn-erooski all around. Owen plays far below his known strength|
|Mar-26-15|| ||Bubo bubo: The line 20...Nxe4! gives Black a second chance to go astray: if he mindlessly answers 21.Nxd8 with Nxf2 ("Tit-for-tat"), we have Philidor's Legacy again: 22.Qxe6+.|
|Mar-26-15|| ||kevin86: danger: smothered mate coming!|
|Mar-26-15|| ||mruknowwho: Overprotecting the pawn on e4; Aron Nimzowitsch would be proud.|
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