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Mikhail Chigorin vs Siegbert Tarrasch
"Bishop Odds?" (game of the day Oct-01-2017)
Vienna (1898), Vienna AUT, rd 36, Jul-22
Bird Opening: From Gambit. Lasker Variation (A02)  ·  1/2-1/2

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Dec-13-17  zanzibar: <kereru> it's too good a story not to try to find the source, but I agree, one should view it skeptically at the moment.

Alas.

Dec-13-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: In the book:< Gyula Breyer Chess Revolutionary> on chapter 30 titled:

<Bécsi Magyar Újság > on page 673, you find:

<The final phase of the Chigorin-Tarrasch game was an interesting episode from the grand vienna tournament of the 1890's.

The position was this:


click for larger view

Tarrasch (black) rejected Chigorin's offer of a draw, whereupon Chigorin removed even his Bishop from the board, to which Tarrasch blushingly mumbled, All right, it's a draw!>

https://books.google.com.pr/books?i...

Dec-13-17  zanzibar: The Lombardy/Daniels book:

https://www.worldcat.org/title/ches...

A copy sold on ebay for $24.95, and still is viewable:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CHESS-PANO...

<

Chess Panorama

William Lombardy & David Daniels

An invitation to the hallowed halls of the chess masters.

Chilton 6078 (1975) Radnor PA $6.95 hc

>

Inside flap...

<

This is what competitive chess is really like.

A Yugoslav grandmaster, befuddled
at a simultaneous blindfold exhibi-
tion, flees from a crowd of peasants
through a bathroom window...

A convicted murderer escapes from
the police while being taken to a
chess tournament...

The wife of Grandmaster Reschevsky
causes pandemonium when she in-
sists on interjecting herself into a
game with Grandmaster Byrne...

Here are the colorful personalities,
the scandals, and the great blunders
of the champions that make up the
chess panorama. Light in tone, some-
times humorous, and always enter-
taining, these stories, illustrated with
game diagrams, offer a marvelous
introduction to the world of chess.

Delightful kibbitzing, and chock full
of marvelous anecdotes, this book, by
real insiders, will entertain and
instruct simple wood pushers and
masters alike.

>

Dec-13-17  zanzibar: Back flap has some info on Daniels (who I couldn't find on <CG>(?)):

<

David Daniels is an American master
who has ghostwritten several impor-
tant chess works. A former managing
editor of <Chess Review>, he has served
as Secretary and Rating Statistician
of the U.S. Chess Federation. Mr.
Daniels lives in Brooklyn, New York.

>

.

Dec-13-17  zanzibar: A final thought before leaving the topic (however temporarily)...

The anecdote is almost certainly going to come from Chigorin and not Tarrasch - therefore it would have most likely showed up in the Russian press first (assuming it's a true story). Therefore, the original source will be difficult to find, at least for us non-Russian speakers.

Just speculating...

Dec-14-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: < I think he addresses the authenticity of the story in section 20.>

AKA page 20.

<CFF came after these two notes so maybe there is more info there.>

No, just #3516.

Dec-14-17  kereru: @zanzibar I have Chess Panorama, it's typical 70s fluff, entertaining but mildly scandalous and light on sources. Lots of "once" and "used to say" etc.

Winter criticized Jimmy Adams' approach to sourcing for the recent Breyer book, I doubt very much that he gives a direct source for the Chigorin-Tarrasch story. Like Dvoretsky he appears to have got it from Chess Panorama.

David Daniels is probably this guy: http://www.uschess.org/msa/MbrDtlMa...

Dec-15-17  zanzibar: <kereru> I found a copy of Lombardy's book in the library network, so I'll take a look myself when it arrives.

I tried to scan the literature a little, looking in the contemporaneous periodicals, and various <O'Keefe> newspapers, but couldn't find any mention of the incident. I might have missed it though.

Well, like I said, if the story comes from Chigorin, it likely would be originally found in a Russia source - and those are thin from that time.

Here's Winter's comments about Jimmy Adams:

C.N. 10563

and also

C.N. 10661

Note that in the list of exemplary MacFarland books he omits Soltis' book on Soviet chess for some reason!

.

Dec-15-17  zanzibar: PS- I'm getting "gateway timeouts" trying to use your USCF link for Daniels... too bad.
Dec-15-17  kereru: Would it be cheeky to contact Mr. Daniels and ask (nicely) if he was making it up, or maybe he was repeating somtehing from Lombardy which grew in the telling?

He's still around as far as I can tell, he'd be 75 and he lives in NJ.

Dec-15-17  zanzibar: <Kereru> I think it would be appropriate, though unlikely any of us would actually make the attempt.

I'm not 100% sure Dvoretsky would have used <Chess Panorama> as a source either, coming from the Russian tradition.

What's the most authoritative biography of Chigorin these days?

.

Dec-15-17  zanzibar: Does anybody have Adams' 2015 book on Chigorin?

https://www.houseofstaunton.com/sho... (discounted to ~$25)

Sample pages: https://www.newinchess.com/media/wy...

I think this game is on p589. Is mention of the incident made there?

.

Dec-15-17  zanzibar: Consider this mention of another(?) biography of Chigorin:

<Recently a long-standing friend of Ken Whyld has joined us whose outstanding works as a chess publicist may fill complete metres long shelves. (Particularly if you add the volumes of Chess Monthly which has been edited since August 1991 by Jimmy Adams as a technical editor, then from spring 1992 - after the MacMillam crash – as an editor.) Impressive are the tournament books published together with Dale Brandreth: Baden-Baden 1925, Bled 1931 or Moscow 1935,

<each based on the Russian originals, as well as Bogoljubov’s Chigorin biography, translated by Jimmy into English>.

But my definite favourite is and will remain "Artist of the Chessboard", herewith Johannes Zukertort was finally dedicated in 1989 a worthy game collection and biography. (M.N.)

<<>>>

http://www.kwabc.org/index.php/kwa-...

So, is the Bogoljubov work separate from Adams own work?

I'd be interested if Bogoljubov's bio has mention of the incident - as I'm fairly certain it predates Lombardy's work.

Dec-15-17  zanzibar: Guess this 1926 work is Bogo's:

https://www.worldcat.org/title/izbr...

.

Dec-15-17  zanzibar: A 1952 edition may reside here, ready for download:

http://webchess.ru/ebook/382.html

Does anybody read Russian, who might be inclined to peruse said edition for this (in)famous game?

.

Dec-16-17  kereru: The book you linked to is Grekov's Chigorin: 120 Selected Games.

http://www.worldcat.org/title/120-i...

It doesn't include this game, or (as far as I can tell) discuss the alleged incident.

Dec-16-17  zanzibar: Thanks <kereru>, I caught that error over at the Schmidt and Shurov bios and should have updated here.

I'm still wondering if Bogo's bio is available somewhere. Obviously, my Russia is quite poor (Cyrillic still presents quite the challenge to me).

Dec-16-17  zanzibar: Watson reviewing various English-language books on Chigorin:

http://theweekinchess.com/john-wats...

Santasiere also wrote a book on Chigorin <My Love Affair with Tschigorin>

Game Collection: Santasiere's "My Love Affair With Tchigorin"

https://www.amazon.com/My-Love-Affa...

Dec-16-17  zanzibar: Winter has a little on Santasiere's book:

<‘Only a lover of the hero should be privileged to write this book, for Love calls unto Love.

My love affair with Tchigorin began when I carefully studied his monumental 22-game match with Dr Tarrasch ... Tchigorin was the great creative artist, the poet who craved only freedom to dream. He also was a great teacher of and for what he believed in. He was so much a lover, that I truly believe that in the world of chess, he was a saint.’>

C.N. 7933

Dec-16-17  Magpye: Santasiere's writings always makes me want to retch. I own his <Essay on Chess> - horrible.

He is quite possibly the worse ever American annotator of games.

Dec-30-17  kereru: Santasiere was a one of a kind for sure. Conservative Christian anarchy, anyone?
Feb-03-22
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: I seem to recall the same story being in one of Chernev's books - Wonders and Curiosities of Chess? Fireside Book of Chess? Odd story if it's true, since Chigorin is the only one with any trace of winning chances. If you remove Tarrasch's bishop, Chigorin wins.
Feb-06-22
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: Edward Winter again asked for contemporary evidence supporting the story in https://en.chessbase.com/post/edwar... Apparently no one has responded.
Oct-02-23
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: Lombardy and Daniels wrote:

There have been instances in the history of chess when a player chose to exercise his legal right to play on, even when to do so appeared downright indecent. The most famous such incident brought together two of the most stubborn men ever to play the game, Mikhail Tchigorin of Russia and Dr. Siegbert Tarrasch of Germany. Their encounter in the Vienna tournament of 1898 came to an ending with a symmetrical pawn formation and Bishops of opposite colors. Hours of fruitless maneuvering brought no winning chances for either side. Finally in the following position


click for larger view

Tchigorin got fed up and offered a draw. Tarrasch refused! Tchigorin knew Tarrasch well, and was half expecting that; he calmly removed his Bishop from the board and said, in broken German, "Go ahead. Win." Tarrasch proceeded to reevaluate his position in light of this startling development, and then tamely agreed to a draw.

Chess Panorama, p. 68.

Great story, but it's obviously a crock. The players reached an ending with opposite-colored bishops on move 33. Four moves later they agreed to a draw. No "hours of fruitless maneuvering."

Oct-02-23
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: The trouble I have with the tale is Tarrasch's last two moves indicate there was nothing to play for.

Final Position.


click for larger view

Very possible it is a note in some report. 'Dead draw, even if you remove the White Bishop it is still drawn.'

Also it is White's move so you would think the draw offer came from Black before making their 33rd move.

Play started at 10am, 30 moves in two hours, at 2pm a bell sounded, all games were stopped and resumed at 5pm. It was forbidden to analyse the games. It is feasible these two had made time control and the game was stopped at 2pm just as Tarrasch made his 33rd move.

During the break Chigorin could have stated it was draw even without the White Bishop, Tarrasch was offered a draw and agreed.

Tournament details here; Vienna (1898)

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