|Nov-18-04|| ||westinghouse: Oh wowies! I'm the first one here, and I actually got this right! You could solve this on an intuitive level sans variations because that Bishop does a poor job of defending the pawns on White's King Bishop Three and King Rook Three...=) |
|Nov-18-04|| ||erikcu: Todays puzzle was brought to you by about 40 moves of jockying for position. |
Can someone point out a flaw in 101. Nc3 Bxc3 for me? I thought that the black king could force a pawn on that move as well.
|Nov-18-04|| ||who: It is unclear to me whether a sac of the knight is really necessary. Pulling it back with 101...Nb8 or Nc7 might be enough. |
|Nov-18-04|| ||Shams: maybe it`s not strictly necessary on this move, black`s 101st, but it will be necessary at some point. Either Nb8 or Nc7 is met by b5 and white can almost just close his eyes and push the pawn. |
|Nov-18-04|| ||Granite: A passed pawn is worth a piece, he takes one with the knight then makes a new one of his own. Glad to say I got this one! |
|Nov-18-04|| ||Marco65: IMO 101...Nc7 102.b5 and Black eventually has to sacrifice his knight all the same. 101...Nb8? allows 102.Bb5 Kh4 103.Be8 and it's only White who has chances to win. |
|Nov-18-04|| ||Gypsy: <erikcu,who> It seems that Duras was heading for the sac since White 97.Nc6. Black 97...Be1+, 99...Kg5, and 100...Na6! are all quite committing and his caclulations better be accurate. The key is that 101...Nxb4! gains time. |
In contrast, 101...Bxc3(?) 102.Kxc3 Nb8?! 103.Bb5 Kh4 104.Be8 Kxh3 105.Bxh5 Kh4 106.Bf7 Kg3 107.Bxe6 Kxf3 108.Kd3 looks winning for White.
And 101...Bxc3(?) 102.Kxc3 Nxb4 103.Kxb4 Kh4 104.Ba6 Kxh3 105.Bc8 Kg3 106.Bxe6 h5 107.Bxf5 h3 108.Bxh3 Kxh3 109.Kc5 Kg3 110.Kxd5 Kxf3 =. (Compare this variation with the game to see the difference in time.)
|Nov-18-04|| ||Gypsy: Hamburg 1910: 1.Schlechter (11.5/16) 2.Duras(11) 3.Nimzowich 4.Spielmann 5-6.Marshall & Teichmann 7-8.Alekhine & Duz-Chotimirsky 9-10.Forgacz & Tarrasch ... |
|Nov-18-04|| ||checkpat: That s not tactics; just common sense
|Nov-18-04|| ||pawntificator: I agree that 101...Bxc3 still wins. I was proud of myself for getting the right answer though, even though there didn't seem to be any other option. It was helpful for me to know that black would win and to be able to reason how that could be accomplished in terms of the elements of the position. White was desperately trying to hold the draw, from the beginning he was offering trades left and right. It was satisfying to see black use all of white's mistakes against him in the end. |
|Nov-18-04|| ||DexterGordon: <Gypsy>, thanks for the variations! |
I found your second one very illuminating. The fact that after move 109 the White is on c3 in the game but c5 in the variation makes all the difference.
|Nov-18-04|| ||The King Returns: Did anyone consider the following line:
101...Nxb4 102.Kxb4 e5
At this point things seem unclear (maybe because I can't follow things thru to the end).
If now 103.dxe5, then 103...d4 will pin the white knight to the king (because of the bishop on e1). It also looks like the black king can "catch" the passed white pawn now on e5.
If instead, 103.Kb3 (to avoid the line aobve where the kinght is pinned), then 103...e4. At this point, I'm not sure if black has enough compensation for the lost kinght.
These were the lines I was contemplating.
|Nov-18-04|| ||Shubes82: Anyone look at 102)...Bxc3? After 103)...Kh4, black looks unstoppable here too. I guess it doesnt matter, since the dark bishop and knight were moot points here anyway . Great game by Oldrich here. I lovd how he squelchd that white queen side pawn push around moves 37-40, then systematically picked them all off after exchanging rooks. |
|Nov-18-04|| ||kevin86: I looked at "the right move"-but didn't follow up on it-so I guess I lose :(|
I guess,after all,that the b-pawn was worth a knight! AND more!
|Nov-18-04|| ||fgh: Lol. Solved in 1.9 seconds. |
|Nov-18-04|| ||erikcu: I used a Java applet and got the following. Both winning for black.|
101. Nc3 Bxc3 102. Bxa6 Bxd4 103. b4-b5 Kg5-h4 104. Ba6-c8 Kh4xh3 105. Bc8xe6 Kh3-g2 106. Be6xd5 h5-h4 107. Kb3-c4 Bd4-e3 108. Bd5-e6 h4-h3 109. b5-b6 Be3xb6 110. Kc4-b5 Bb6-e3 111. Be6xf5 h3-h2
112. Bf5-e4 h2-h1 Q promotion
101. Nc3 Bxc3 102.Kb3xc3 Na6xb4 103.Kc3xb4 Kg5-h4 104.Kb4-c5 Kh4xh3 105.Kc5-d6 Kh3-g2 106.Kd6xe6 h5-h4 107.Ke6xf5 h4-h3
108.Kf5xf4 h3-h2 109.Kf4-e5 h2-h1 Queen promotion
The second variation still involves sacrificing the knight, but the black pawn is unstopable.
|Nov-18-04|| ||erikcu: sorry for the change in notation, I cut and pasted. |
|Nov-18-04|| ||Elrathia Kingi: I guess this is chess 101... |
|Nov-18-04|| ||pkjohn146: <Anyone look at 102)...Bxc3? After 103)...Kh4, black looks unstoppable>|
Yeah, I thought of that. I also saw it like gypsy's second analysis. Only thing was, I analyzed it to getting a queen for black but white resigned before the inevitable.
|Nov-19-04|| ||Gypsy: There does seem to be a "study win" after the <101...Bxc3 102.Kxc3>. It goes <102...Nxb4 103.Kxb4 Kh4 104.Ba6 Kxh3 105.Bc8 Kg3 106.Bxe6 h5! 107.Bxf5> Kxf3! 108.Kc5 Kg3! 109.Kxd5 f3 ... and White bishop can not cope, 0:1.|
The order of Black moves is very important however, permutations of that order yield different results. Here are some fun possibilities that have not been listed yet:
<104.Ba6> Kg3?! 105.Bc8 Kxf3 106.Bxe6 Kg3 107.Bxd5(!) ...
or <104.Ba6 Kxh3 105.Bc8 Kg3 106.Bxe6> Kxf3? 107.Bxd5+ Kg3 108.Bh1! and White(!) should win. For instance 108...f3 109.Bxf3 Kxf3 110.d5 h4 111.d6 h3 112.d7 h2 113.d8Q .... h1Q 114.Qd4+ K~ 115.Qxh1 1:0.
Going back to Duras combination. The knight sacrifice clearly is only an ellegant centerpiece in the middle of a much longer forcing play and should be appreacited in such context. Schlechter clearly missed it when he played 97.Nc6. (White position was objectively lost, however; Black also had a win after the defensive 97.Nd3.)
|Nov-19-04|| ||Marco65: Of course, it is fun on chessgames.com to exercise our mind and analyse variations that we would have never examined over the board with time constraints. But if someone really thinks 102...Bxc3+ was worth a try over the board, I recommend reading the article http://www.chesscafe.com/text/dvore... by Mark Dvoretsky. The knight can't escape, therefore taking it only after White moves its king to avoid the pinning reaches the same position but with one more tempo for Black. Except rare case of zuzwang this is an advantage. We don't need to analyse the two variations at all to know that 102...Bxc3 can't be the best move. |
|Nov-19-04|| ||Stonewaller2: Speaking of time constraints, was this played in a single sitting or, as is the modern practice, over several days with adjournments, sealed moves and time for analysis? If the former, Schlechter could probably be excused for missing such a subtle and elegant combination after 90 moves, but the latter wouldn't take that much away from Duras's achievement in finding it.|
Those of us who missed the text solution (like me :o) probably did so because we missed the pin after 101. ... xb4 102. xb4 and/or the White maneuver beginning with a6. It's nice to know that there's still a win after 101. ... xc3 -- and don't think I won't be trying that line on CM7K -- but it's better to recognize the nature of the oversight and work to correct it, no (which is why we come here after all)?
|Nov-19-04|| ||sneaky pete: <Stonewaller2> From the tournament book: Sittings of 4 hours, time control 30 moves in 2 hours. Playing hours from 9 am till 1 pm and from 4 pm till 8 pm. So this game was stretched over several days, most likely divided in 4 sittings. |
|Nov-22-04|| ||Stonewaller2: Thanks; White appears to win, though, after 101. ... xc3 102. xc3 xb4 103. xb4 h4 104. f1 after getting behind the Black s with c5. The pin after 101. ... xb4 gives Black the vital tempo needed to push home. |