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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing > |
| May-24-05 |
| pantlko: its your choice........ |
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| Jun-02-05 |
| perfidious: <offramp> Try playing poker as a(n) vocation/avocation sometime, and you'll see what it's like to take correct decisions, knowing what an opponent has, and still get done over when he hits his miracle card! |
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| Jan-12-06 |
| DanielBryant: <perfidous> When I play poker with my roommate, often he can get a perfect read on him and he'll still outdraw me. He will become violently angry and start cursing at me. This is why I prefer chess to poker, because only chess is completely logical. |
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May-09-06
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| RandomVisitor: 19...bxc3 20.Rxb6 Bd5 is scored as equal by Rybka 1.2f after deep analysis. Black will try Kd7 and try to free the trapped rook. This just might work. |
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May-09-06
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| whatthefat: <RandomVisitor>
Would you be able to post the follow-up lines? |
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May-09-06
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| RandomVisitor: 19...bxc3 20.Rxb6 Bd5 21.bxc3 (21.Bh3 cxb2 22.Rxb2 Be6 is interesting) Kd7 22.Rb2 is scored as 0.00 with a couple of choices that lead nowhere. I'm going to expand on this. |
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May-10-06
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| whatthefat: <RandomVisitor>
Following your 21.Bh3 cxb2 22.Rxb2 Be6 line, where does 23.Bg2 lead? 23...c3 24.Rb7 Bd7 looks worrying for black to me; as does 23...Rc8 24.Bb7 Rc7 25.Bxa6, but perhaps black can improve in these lines. Computers will no doubt have some trouble assessing the position due to the trapped rook, but maybe Rybka will be less affected. |
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May-10-06
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| RandomVisitor: <whatthefat>Rybka will be less affected by the trapped rook. Rybka playing Black will try to hold by forcing white to try to make progress. If white cannot make progress, it will score the position as 0.00. So what does White do? It is effectively 2 pieces against 2 pieces, with the Kingside massively clogged. |
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May-10-06
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| whatthefat: So what happens according to Rybka in the above lines I suggested? |
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May-10-06
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| RandomVisitor: 19...bxc3 20.Rxb6 Bd5 21.Bh3 cxb2 22.Rxb2 and now 22...c3 or 22...Bc6 as 22...Be6 runs into some problems. In each of your lines, White ends up with an advantage, so I am backing up and trying something else for Black. |
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May-10-06
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| RandomVisitor: 19...bxc3 20.Rxb6 Bd5 21.Bh3 cxb2 22.Rxb2 c3 23.Rb6 Be6 24.Bxe6 fxe6 25.Rxe6 0.00 (24.Bg2 Bxg5 25.fxg5 Kd7 26.Rb7+ Kd6 27.Rb6+ Kd7 per.chk) |
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May-10-06
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| whatthefat: <RandomVisitor>
click for larger viewIn response to 22...Bc6 I'd suggest that 23.Rb6 Bb5 Bg2 (23...Bd7 24.Bg2) looks interesting. And in the line 22...c3 23.Rc2 Be6 24.Bg2 Rc8 25.Bb7 Rc7 26.Bxa6 Bd7 27.Rxc3 looks quite nice for white to me. Perhaps 26...Rxe7 will allow black out of the bind. The latter line is rather long, so I'm sure some improvements exist. The idea is that although it's effectively 2 pieces vs. 2 pieces, black also has to deal with the mating threats. |
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May-10-06
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| RandomVisitor: In the 22...c3 line Black has possibly 26...Ra7 as an improvement as your line favors white. |
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May-10-06
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| RandomVisitor: I will check this tomorrow as it is getting late on the East Coast... |
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May-10-06
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| RandomVisitor: After 21.Bh3 cxb2 22.Rxb2: Rybka 1.2f ultra slow analysis: 29-ply 0.00 22. ... c3 23.Rb6 Be6 24.Bg2 Bxg5 25.fxg5 Kd7 26.Rb7+ Kd6 27.Rb6+ Kd7 28.Rb7+ Kd6 29.Rb6+ 29-ply 0.00 22. ... Bc6 23.Kd2 Bd7 24.Bxd7+ Kxd7 25.Kc3 Bxg5 26.Rd2+ Ke6 27.fxg5 Rhg8 28.Re2+ Kd7 29.Rd2+ |
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May-10-06
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| RandomVisitor: 22...Bc6 seems to fall apart after 23.Rb6, so 22...c3 seems best. After 22...c3 23.Rc2 and now Rb8 or c4 seems playable. |
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May-10-06
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| whatthefat: <RandomVisitor>
Interesting, you may have uncovered a saving resource for black. I'd very much like to see where the analysis after 22...c3 23.Rc2 leads. I may have a closer look into it myself. |
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| Oct-15-06 |
| CapablancaFan: Wow, what a game. White is down a whole rook, but objectively material is even because white has imprisoned his oponents rook. By the time black realizes he must return a piece to release his rook, it's too late because the kingside pawns are off and running. Very interesting game. |
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Oct-15-06
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| Albertan: Polugaevsky blundered on move 17 in this game when he played 17.h4?? Instead he could have played 17.exf8(Q) and after 17...Kxf8 18.Rd6 Rb8 19.h4 Kg8 20.Be2 Kh7
the position is evaluated as  by Rybka.
Torre could have played 21...Be4 instead of 21...Bxg5. If 21...Bxg5 then a possible continuation is: 22.Kf2 Rh7 23.Be2 Rh8 24.Bf3 Bxf3 25.Kxf3 Bxg5 26.fxg5 Rg8 however this position after 26...Rg8 is only evaluated by Rybka as  Rybka gives Black a larger advantage with the move 21...Be4 (as opposed to the move Torre played 21...Nd5) however after 22. Kd2 Bd5 23. Ne3 Be6 24. g6!? c3+!? 25. bxc3 Nd7 26.Bc4 Nxf6 27. gxf7+ Bxf7 28. Rxf6 Bxc4 29. Nxc4 Kxe7 30. Rxa6 Ra8 Black's advantage has slipped to almost nothing however it would have been better than what Torre faced with his moves. |
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Oct-15-06
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| Albertan: On move 32 Torre should have played 32...Bf5 and had equality after 33.Nf4 Rc8 34.Bxf7 Rc1+ 35.Ke2 Rc2+ =. Torre blundered when he played 35...Kf4?? Instead, he should have played 35...d3 and play might have continued 36.g6!? fxg6 37.hxg6 Kf6 38.Bf7 Rc8 39.Kd2 Rc2 40.Kxd3 Rxb2 41.g5+ Kg7 (the only move) 42.Kc4 Rxb2 43.Kxb4 with a draw according to endgame tablebases. After playing 35...Kf4?? nothing could save Torre from defeat. |
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Nov-19-06
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| whatthefat: <Polugaevsky blundered on move 17 in this game when he played 17.h4??> LOL! This is Polugaevsky's brilliant concept, and chess engines don't seem to yet understand it. I've previously only seen it annotated as a !! move - it's certainly not a blunder! The whole point is that black's king's rook is essentially out of the game. It appears near the top of most 'best moves of all time' lists. If you want to know what Rybka really thinks of it, read through <RandomVisitor>'s analysis above. He found one line where black might be able to equalize. |
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| Aug-04-07 |
| kuna65: What can white do if black 15 ... fxe6 ? |
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| Jun-06-09 |
| ROO.BOOKAROO: Gregor Samsa Mendel has a fine point to defuse Offramp's silly arrogance. |
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| Aug-15-09 |
| GrahamClayton: <whatthefat>LOL! This is Polugaevsky's brilliant concept, and chess engines don't seem to yet understand it. I've previously only seen it annotated as a !! move - it's certainly not a blunder! The whole point is that black's king's rook is essentially out of the game. It appears near the top of most 'best moves of all time' lists. <whatthefat>,
17.f4 and 18.h4 are amazing moves. Polugaevsky seems to entomb his Bishop in order to entomb the Black Rook. |
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| Sep-17-09 |
| joechuck: It's not true that chess engines don't understand it. I ran Rybka 3 analysis after 16...a6 for a long long time. Initially, it thought 17. exf8R+ or exf8Q+ was the best move. But at depth 26, when 17. h4 was tentatively thought to be the 9th best move, it discovered that 17. h4 was actually the best. The computer is still working it out, so I'll post the analysis later. So this is truly brilliant. If Rybka goes to depth 25 without realizing it, that's amazing. |
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sac: 14.dxe6
