< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 7 ·
|Jun-19-09|| ||Check It Out: Anyone have a phonetic pronunciation for Euwe? Thanks|
|Jun-19-09|| ||Thrajin: <Check It Out: Anyone have a phonetic pronunciation for Euwe? Thanks>|
From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Euwe
|Jun-19-09|| ||Andrijadj: Vidmar plays like Morozevich here...
BTW,this game was used in the film,The Luzhin Defence.
|Jun-19-09|| ||shakespeare: must be a nightmare for Euwe - the mate of vidmar before his eyes - and then this ingenious combination!|
Thrajin: <Check It Out: Anyone have a phonetic pronunciation for Euwe? /°:wə
there is no such sound in english
only in scandinavian languages and in german - and there is definitely no way to describe it I guess it would sound funny for you :-)
|Jun-19-09|| ||WannaBe: From what I know, and yes, I asked the exact same question years ago when I first discovered CG.com...|
It is pronounced Err-Way. Not You-Win, or Err-Win, or You-Way. =)
If Err-Way is wrong, then blame the person who answered my question years ago!!! =)
|Jun-19-09|| ||Amarande: This must be a popular game with film; I seem to remember seeing the position after move 33 in the movie Knight Moves as well ...|
|Jun-19-09|| ||Gilmoy: <Thrajin: °:wə> I looked this up on Wikipedia's IPA page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe...). The 'w' surprised me -- for some reason I always thought he was German, hence a 'v'.|
<WannaBe: Err-Way> That's about as close as English gets.
<shakespeare: only in scandinavian languages and in german> It's also a vowel in Chinese, which a German would write as ü, e.g. <ü + fall-then-rise tone> = "fish" (certainly useful on a chess forum :). Not coincidentally, Chinese have no trouble pronouncing that German syllable, and vice versa. But Germans put umlauts over all the other vowels, too, which is a bit of a mind-bender for a Chinese.
<shakespeare: and there is definitely no way to describe it ...>
The IPA description of it is pretty good: <Like [e], but with the lips rounded like [o].> I independently converged to a very similar description of it years ago -- nice to see some confirmation. (They cite two French words as examples, which also surprised me -- I didn't know French does that. Obviously, those examples don't help me a bit.)
|Jun-19-09|| ||Gilmoy: My homegrown method to teach English-speakers the ü is:|
1. Say "eeeee". Note your lips: pulled wide and back in a partial smile or grimace. (Non-coincidence: "eeee" is the sound of delight or terror precisely because you are either hugely smiling or hugely grimacing, which establishes the shape of your jaw.)
2. Say "ooooo" (as in, <Ooooooh, he took the pawn!!>). Note your lips: rounded, protruding forward. Note your tongue: lowered, basically out of the way.
3. Now say "eeee". Without adjusting your tongue position, round your lips into the "ooo" shape, but continue to say "eeee". You're getting close.
4. The <magic step> (that all English-speakers miss) is: While still saying "eee" with rounded lips, either arch your tongue upward to not-quite-touching the roof of your mouth, or press it slightly forward to not-quite-touching the back of your teeth, so that it starts to constrict the airflow. Think of your tongue as the reed in a clarinet. Pinch the "eee/ooo" airflow until you start to get a <resonant whistling overtone>. That's <ü>.
That resonant overtone is what changes the sound from "oooo" to "something else". It's also why a properly pronounced <ü> sounds higher-pitched than what your larynx is producing. (It's not an illusion -- it really <does> gain higher-frequency components from your tongue-as-reed constricting.)
A further challenge for typical English <listeners> is that your ear isn't trained to recognize this syllable -- so you could listen to various Internet recordings of it and not grasp what's different. (I have the same problem with Portuguese nasalized vowels like -ao.)
|Jun-19-09|| ||Ziggurat: <Gilmoy> Hate to quibble but the <Eu> sound in Euwe is not the same as in the Mandarin word for "fish". <shakespeare> was talking about the sound also written as, for example, ° or ÷, while you are describing the Ř sound.|
|Jun-19-09|| ||Samagonka: Rarely seen such a crushing finish! You just have to love the ueen sac for the final blow!|
|Jun-19-09|| ||vonKrolock: As it was included in a book by Barnie Frank Winkelman called (in Portuguese) <"Arte no Xadrez Moderno"> it was well known here even before the databases...|
|Jun-19-09|| ||Richard Taylor: I stopped the game at move 32 and then found a combination as played leading to a Q sac. and mate. Very briliant by Vidmar! (And me!)|
|Jun-19-09|| ||Richard Taylor: <tpstar> is like schoolmaster! Of course the combination wins ... (but it is true that Vidmar would have had to check out all the side lines - and one does that OTB - although [and this is probably <tpstar>'s point here]) and the temptation is to mentally NOT see defensive moves or alternatives or counters when attacking...that is an error I have fallen into - we all do - so <tpstar>'s point is well made here)) I saw it all fairly easily - when I stopped to see what move to make I mean - as I do at odd moments during a game I am playing over - but sometimes one doesn't analyse all the variations - |
I recently won a game after calculating one line 20 moves and (including some shorter lines) another about 12 or 8 when - in the 8 move line I assesed I was won by the nature of the position and the many threats, exposed openent's King, better piece activity and so on - after the game I was found correct.
And in his book "Judgement and Planning in Chess" it is Euwe himself who talks of this process.
The problem is time on the clock I spent about 40 or more minutes. My whole point was actually strategical, I wanted to occupy a key square with my knight, as it was I beat a +2000 player in 19 moves. But I didn't caculate every single move - I had "halucinations" but the gist of my assessment was right (and in the 'long line' at least 12 ofmymnoves were correct and it then was clearly winning) - in the long line I had planned double rook sac even though I knew that position just looked too dangerous for my oppent sadn that he would reject the line (he is not a tactician per se) - but I still had to calculate it - finding (about the 7th move) in the long line was what made it hard as it was not forced...
Then I proceeded, despite this herioc first game! - to lose <every other game> in the tournament! But in my second game I played a Rook sac against another 2000+ and I reached at least a drawn position - then I had a fascinating attack and missed wins due to time trouble...
But it was a game I treasure even though I lost it! I give myself credit for courage, ideas, tactical genius (just joking!); and imagination...well I at least had some ideas...........
So one takes risks and maybe loses many games or not but one plays imaginative chess....I lost 5 in a row including one where I "lost heart" and resigned in a drawn position!
It is true that Vidmar was a very strong player.
|Jun-19-09|| ||returnoftheking: The eu in Euwe is pronounced as the eu part in the french word monsi(eur).
The e in we is not pronounced "hard" (not as the english word "we")
Euwe does not sound anything like the english word over, if that's meant to be the fun in the pun.|
|Jun-19-09|| ||myschkin: . . .
Hear here ear:
|Jun-19-09|| ||randomsac: Nice combo. When I saw it, I knew it was a moment of Nooooo!|
|Jun-19-09|| ||kevin86: Wow!! Sudden death. If black accepts or refuses the queen sac-he is mated the next move.|
37...♔xf8 38 ♖d8# or ♔h7 38 ♕g7#
Sacrificing the queen against a future champ-it's like pitching a no-hitter.
|Jun-19-09|| ||fm avari viraf: A bolt from the blue! I was just trying to find out how White would save the mate but 37.Qf8+ just gave me a shock which I'm sure Euwe must have experienced too including all the spectators. A fantastic game!|
|Jun-19-09|| ||apple pi: Finally, a pun that plays on the <correct> pronunciation of Euwe!|
|Jun-19-09|| ||WhiteRook48: the correct pronunciation? Euwe got mail!|
|Jun-19-09|| ||tamar: Euwe say Ooh Wah. I say Erv Eh.
Euwe say ovah. I say evah.
Ooh Wah. Erv Eh.
Let's call the whole thing off.
Oy vey, let's call the whole thing off.
|Jun-19-09|| ||Jimfromprovidence: Notwithstanding the fantastic finish to this match, black missed 27...Rd4, double-attacking the d pawn.|
click for larger view
If either 28 Ne4 or Be4, (Be4 shown below) then 28...Qe5 seems to win the pawn outright.
click for larger view
|Jun-19-09|| ||andrewpbell: I don't get the pun (and I only speak English). I also take exception to the use of " 'til " -- since "till" has a provenance of its own (it's not a shortening of "until").|
|Jun-19-09|| ||andrewpbell: Wouldn't "It's not Euwe, it's Mi" be a better pun here?|
|Jun-19-09|| ||Duque Roquero: Great game!!|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 7 ·