< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Nov-03-10|| ||chessgames.com: We are very sorry that we presented this problem as 34.? instead of 34...? as it should have been.|
|Nov-03-10|| ||benveniste: This one might have been easier over the board, since black had just played ♘b3. This move made two newly-created threats -- ♘d4 or ♘d2. ♕f2 falls to the former and ♖g1 falls to the latter. So ♔f2 seems to be the logical move, but I still like black after that sequence.|
|Nov-03-10|| ||TCS: <chessgames> I think you are going to disappoint <Once> who was hoping that you were not at home to Mr.Cockup!|
|Nov-03-10|| ||kevin86: At least I realized it was "black to play". I chose Qh2+ but saw nothing after Kf1 (Kf3? Nd2+ forks king and rook). The text threatens a pseudo-epaulette mate. White must escape to a square where the rook and king are forked.|
|Nov-03-10|| ||kirchhoff: Thank you <Stormbringer>|
|Nov-03-10|| ||Patriot: <chessgames> <We are very sorry that we presented this problem as 34.? instead of 34...? as it should have been.>|
No problem. I figured it was a mistake, but it was good practice nonetheless for thinking defensively.
After reading other comments I decided Rxb3 is not a good practical choice. The most difficult way to lose is what must be found, or a draw if possible. Out of all the kibitzing, 34.Kf2 looked the most interesting and possibly difficult move for black to contend with. It's a good lesson in resistance.
|Nov-03-10|| ||gofer: I can see lots of bad moves for white. But finding a good one is a different story altogether!|
1) For a start queen moves suck big time...
34 Qf3 Qh2+ 35 Kf1 Nd2# 34 Qf1 Qh2+ 35 Kf3 Nd2+ winning the queen and rook! 34 Qe3 Qh2+ 35 Kf1/Kf3 Nd2+ winning the queen as the alternative is check mate 34 Qg4 Qh2+ 35 Kf3 Nd4+ (Kf1 Nd2#) 36 Ke3 Nc2+ Kf3/Kd3 37 Nxe1+ winning 34 Qf2 Qh2+ 35 Kf3 Nd4+ 36 Ke3 Nc2+ 37 Kf3/Ke2 Qxf2+ 38 Kxf2 Nxe1 39 Kxe1 Rh4 winning
2) Rook moves seem to also have problems - even Rg1
34 Rf1 Qh2+ 35 Kf3 Nd4+ mating! 34 Rg4 Qh2+ 35 Kf1 Nd2+! (Kf3 Nd4+) winning the queen 34 Rf3 Qh2+ 35 Kf1 Nd2+! (Kf3 Nd4+) winning the queen
34 Rd1 Qh2+ 35 Kf3 Nd4+ (Kf1 Qxg3!) 36 Rxd4 exd4 winning! 34 Rxb3 Qh2+ 36 axb3 (winning as white still has all the normal problems that it had before, but now it also has a passed pawn to deal with!) 34 Rd3 Qh2+ 35 Kf1 (Kf3 Rh3+ mating) Qh1+ 36 Kf2 Rh2+ 37 Kg3 Rh3+ 38 Kf2 Qh2+ 39 Kf1 Qf4+ 40 Kg1 Qxg5+ winning (Qf2 Rxd3 winning)
34 Rg1 Qh2+ 35 Kf1 Nd2+! (Kf3 Nd4+ mating!) 36 Ke1 Qxe2 37 Qxe2 Nxe4 winning?
3) Some King moves are also problematic
34 Kf3 Nd4+ winning the queen
34 Kf1/Kg1 Qxg3
But what about 34 Kf2? It seems to give white some chance of evading problems! Now this did seems very difficult for a Wednesday, so I must have chess blindness and missed something obvious!
34 Kf2 Nd4!
35 Qg4 Qh2+ (Qd3 Nc2 and both Qd1 and Qf1 both lose to nice combinations)
36 Rg2 Qf4+ (Kf1 loses to Rh4)
37 Qxf4 exf4
Now is this winning for white? I have no idea. But it doesn't seem to be losing. Time the check...
|Nov-03-10|| ||njchess: Now, it all makes sense! Thanks CG! Good puzzle too.|
|Nov-03-10|| ||chessgames.com: Once again, we truly are sorry for this mistake. The puzzle was a user contribution too, and one of the best ones we've received in a long time. Hopefully not too many people butted their head against a wall trying to solve the erroneously stated version.|
|Nov-03-10|| ||gofer: Ok, so this is a Sunday puzzle...
I have tried 34 Kf2 against crafty and it doesn't lose straight away, in fact it may even be winning! You try it...
34 Kf2 Qh2+
35 Rg2 Qf4+
36 Qf3 Nd2
37 Qxf4!? ...
into an endgame of R+R v R+N
|Nov-03-10|| ||scormus: <CG sorry for this mistake> That's OK, we get an Wednesday one on Sunday to make up?|
|Nov-03-10|| ||OBIT: Hey <gofer>, how 'bout turning that position around so that Crafty is playing White after 34. Kf2. The line I like best is 34. Kf2 Qh2+ 35. Rg2 Qf4+ 36. Qf3 Qxf3 37. Kxf3 Rh3+ 38. Rg3 (If there is a rook trade, Black's knight seems to have some difficulty against White's remaining rook. So, White tries to induce the trade, while Black, since he likes his active rook, avoids the trade.) Nd2+ 39. Kg2 (or 39. Kg4 Rh2 to keep the active rook) Rh4. |
I think Black probably wins from this position. His basic plan is to keep the rooks on the board until he has picked up a second pawn. Preferably, he'd like the get the e-pawn or g-pawn, since capturing these pawns do not give White any open files as compensation. Admittedly, it's still a little unclear, which is why I'm curious if Crafty can defend the position.
|Nov-03-10|| ||fouard: That's why I wait until the next day. They screw it up a lot (wrong move, etc.), and you have wasted your time. You West Coasters get it at 9pm, I imagine. But it's not a race, anyway.|
|Nov-03-10|| ||David2009: Guimard vs Euwe, 1946 Black 34...?|
43...Nd2! wins. If Qxd2 Qh2+; meanwhile 35 ...Qh2+ is threatened which is checkmate in some variations (e.g. 35 Qg4). This leaves only 35 Kf2 Nxe4+ winning at least the exchange.
Time to check:
Got it. Sometimes it pays to come late - the correct position is now announced.
|Nov-03-10|| ||turbo231: I'm behind so I worked on Monday's puzzle yesterday! I saw the first move but something didn't seem right I couldn't see the win for white.|
So I gave Houdini black then I gave GNU white. Houdini mated white in 83 moves! So black had the winning position!
|Nov-03-10|| ||Once: Ah well, that's that. A shame too, as it would have been a good puzzle.|
But howzabout it, CG.com? How about a few defensive puzzles for a change?
|Nov-03-10|| ||wals: Well that's the end of my run.
Why Nd2 children? Because my little dears if the Queen takes it will be parked like an iceberg in the Sahara
and the lovely Black Queen can come down to h2 and give check, and when the King moves can gobble up the white Queen. Cannibalism ? not not really precious, it's only a game.
Analysis Rybka 4 x 64
depth 22 : 15 min :
(-4.47):33.g5. Best, Kf2, -0.82,
depth 20 : 5 min :
(-1.12):33...Nb3. Best, Nxe4, -4.47.
depth 19 : 3 min :
(-17.34):34.Rg1. Best, Kf2, -1.12.
Game over for White.
|Nov-03-10|| ||JASAHA: Nd2 and the knight can't be taken.|
|Nov-03-10|| ||WhiteRook48: oh, wow, I missed another easy puzzle|
|Nov-03-10|| ||cjgone: Got it but took a while because I thought I saw another better line.|
|Nov-03-10|| ||ruzon: Finally there is an advantage to looking at the puzzle during lunchtime!|
|Nov-03-10|| ||zabbura2002: I was looking at ..Nd4 but couldn't find a strong finish and since this is a 2 stars, it should be something simpler. ..Nd2 came right after. Queen couldn't take it|
|Nov-03-10|| ||patzer2: The possibility 34. Kf2! really is instructive. At first I thought White was about even and could hold, but now it's looking like White will have a tough time surviving. Black's extra pawns will be much more powerful than White's exchange up (i.e. Rook for Knight).|
One possibility is 34. Kf2 Qh2+ (not 34...Nd2? 35. Qxd2 )35. Rg2 Qf4+ 36. Qf3 (as given by <TCS>), when play might continue 36...Rh3 37. Qxf4 exf4 38. Rg4 (38. e5 dxe5 39. Rxe5 Nd2 40. Rg4 Rh2+ 41. Rg2 Rh4 42. Rg1 Nxc4 43. Re4 Nxa3 44. Rxa4 Nxb5 45. Re1 Rh2+ 46. Kf3 Rd2 47. Re5 Nc3 48. Ra8 Rxd5 49. Kxf4 Rd7 50. Rae8 Na4 51. Rc8 Nc5 52. Kf3 Ne6 53. Kf2 Rd2+ ) 38... Nc5 39. Kf1 Nd3 40. Re2 Rf3+ 41. Kg1 f6 42. e5 Nxe5 43. Kg2 f5 44. Rh4 Rg3+ 45. Kf1 Rxg5 46. Rxf4 Rg3 47. Ra2 Ng4 48. Ke1 Kf6 49. Rf1 g5 50. Rh1 f4 51. Rf1 Ne3 52. Rh1 Nxc4 .
|Nov-03-10|| ||turbo231: It's time to look at Tuesday's puzzle. From what I've been reading I don't want anything to do with Wednesday's puzzle.|
|Nov-03-10|| ||jrbleau: Why 33...Nxe4 is better than 33...Nb3 is more instructive than the given problem.|
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