< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Jun-18-10|| ||Once: Returning to the "is there a quicker finish" argument, Fritzie says that 32. Bxe6+ is mate in 3 and that 32. Qh7+ is mate in 5. |
The difference is that the Qh7+ and Rf1+ line allows black two useless moves to chuck material and prolong the agony: 32. Qh7+ Kf8 33. Rf1+ Rf3 34. Rxf3+ Qf6 35. Rxf6+ Bf7 36. Qxf7#
By contrast, the 32. Bxe6+ line doesn't allow black to interpose. This line goes 32. Bxe6+ Bf7 33. Qh7+ Kf8 34. Qxf7#
I guess it depends on whether you are a pragmatist or a pedant. A pragmatist would say that both moves lead to a forced mate and the black sacrifices on the f file are irrelevant computer time wasting. A pedant would say that, strictly speaking, Bxe6+ is quicker.
All this aside, Fischer had a lovely way of making the dragon seem like suicide.
|Jun-18-10|| ||Benzol: <Cibator> Have a look at chessgames.com chessforum|
|Jun-18-10|| ||kevin86: Mate will come very soon. BF was the bomb!|
|Jun-18-10|| ||Atking: <Eyal: <mack: Kasparov has praised the originality of 13.Qe2>
True, although he also says that objectively the more conventional 13.Bxc4 should be the better move... but giving up the DSB instead of the LSB put Gligoric in an unfamiliar situation, to which he didn't respond so well. As Kasparov points out, the "normal" Qa5 isn't very effective here, since with the bishop still on b3 the black queen doesn't really attack anything from that square. Instead, <Qb6> on move 14 or 15 was more in the spirit of the position - taking advantage of the unusual placement of the white queen on e3 to gain time by the threat e5; e.g., 14...Qb6 15.Qd2 Qc5, with the idea of pushing forward the Q-side pawns next.> I'm not sure the matter between Fischer's inspired move and the "normal" move could be resume by a simple "better was". It's like to compare 1.d4 and 1.e4 Still... My impression seeing the video is Kasparov acted more on psychological purpose saying Gligoric was surpised but him, he will not. On suggested 14...Qb6 15.Qd2 Qc5 16.f4 is now more logical then 16...b5 (16...h5?! 17.Nf3 Bh6 18.e5! dxe 19.Nxe5 QxN 20.fxQ BxQ+ 21.RxB Ng4 22.Bxf7+ Lovely LSB...) 17.e5! dxe 18.fxe Qxe5 19.Nf3 Qc7 20.Rhe1 is embarrassing e.g 20...b4 21.Ne4 NxN 22.RxN a5 23.Rc4 Qd8 24.RxR QxR 25.Qd5 e6 26.Qxa5 White is better.|
|Jun-18-10|| ||timothee3331: Is the pun related to the famous "I don't believe in psychology, i believe in good moves" ? Or is it just a game of words, stating that Dragons are a legend ?!|
|Jun-18-10|| ||Chessmensch: Did you see in the news yesterday that they plan to exhume Bobby because a paternity suit? Here's one of many links. http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/06/18...|
|Jun-18-10|| ||screwdriver: I don't know why Gligoric didn't take out the light squared bishop early on.
It seems that is necessary.|
|Jun-18-10|| ||Little Chest Partner: <Fischer missed the winning 23. Rxh5!!|
You can find the analysis at the CCC
The link doesn´t work anymore so I´ll post some analysis here:
1: Robert James Fischer - Svetozar Gligoric, Bled ct 1959
click for larger view
23.Rxh5 gxh5 24.Qxh5 d5 25.exd5 exd5 26.Nxd5 Rxd5 27.Rxd5 Be6 28.Rd3 a5 29.c3 Bxb3 30.axb3 Qxb3 31.g6 fxg6 32.Qxg6 Rf8 33.Rd7 Rf7 34.Rd8+ Rf8 35.Rxf8+ Kxf8 36.Qf5+ Ke7 37.Qc5+ Ke6 38.Qxa5 Qd1+ 39.Nc1 Qd5 40.Qxd5+ Kxd5 41.Kc2 Ke4 42.Nd3 Kf5
(1.60) Depth: 20/60 00:25:21 933mN
Resulting in this position:
click for larger view
Rxh5 is RobboLitto´s preferred move since depth 14 or so, and each new ply the White edge was, basically, increasing. The 2nd best for White was Rd2, still according to the engine.
|Jun-18-10|| ||Ferro: POBRE GLIGORIC|
|Jun-18-10|| ||Julian713: <After 47 years a piece of chess software called Rybka, the strongest commercial chess software today, spotted this move overlooked by Fischer, all GM commentators, including Kasparov, who only gave the alternative 23. f5!?>|
And why, exactly, is this such a big deal, considering that Fischer plays the move just two turns later? With the same result??
|Jun-18-10|| ||Petrosianic: By that time, Black has parted with his dark-squared bishop and weakened his King position.|
|Jun-18-10|| ||The Famous Chess Cat: <mack: Kasparov has praised the originality of 13.Qe2. See some of a lecture he gave on this game at the London Chess & Bridge Centre here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgqS...;|
The link says the user has removed the video. Maybe my computer is messing up, though. In any case, I would have played Qd3. Are the moves so different?
|Jun-18-10|| ||pampy: Why this game is called "I Don't Believe in Dragons"?|
|Jun-18-10|| ||s4life: "how NOT to train your dragon" would have been a good pun too :)|
|Jun-18-10|| ||chrisowen: Keeping h1 castle held hafts the knight h5 and sharp edge swing towards white as steed gobbled. Once utop the fire breathing bishop choked out in c3 then sacrifice throwing chop Nxf4 white lands death blow Qf3. Neck off fit majesty holds Nh5 Rxh5 gxh5 Qxh5 prize is mated file. It preyed on standard rituals sac sac shah mat!|
|Jun-18-10|| ||newzild: < Once:
All this aside, Fischer had a lovely way of making the dragon seem like suicide.>
Apart from this classic:
Fischer vs C Munoz, 1960
|Jun-18-10|| ||Eyal: <Atking: My impression seeing the video is Kasparov acted more on psychological purpose saying Gligoric was surpised but him, he will not. On suggested 14...Qb6 15.Qd2 Qc5 16.f4 is now more logical then 16...b5 (16...h5?! 17.Nf3 Bh6 18.e5! dxe 19.Nxe5 QxN 20.fxQ BxQ+ 21.RxB Ng4 22.Bxf7+ Lovely LSB...) 17.e5! dxe 18.fxe Qxe5 19.Nf3 Qc7 20.Rhe1 is embarrassing e.g 20...b4 21.Ne4 NxN 22.RxN a5 23.Rc4 Qd8 24.RxR QxR 25.Qd5 e6 26.Qxa5 White is better.>|
Instead of 22…a5? Black should play in this line 22…Bc6! Followed by 0-0 and he seems to stand very well; another option which looks good for Black a few moves earlier is 17...b4 (18.Na4 Qa5). Btw, Fischer actually ran into (the beginning of) this plan a year later in Fischer vs L Marini, 1960, but there instead of following with 16...b5, Marini immediately went wrong with the h5 & Bh6 idea, which was indeed refuted by 18.e5!
|Jun-18-10|| ||Eyal: <Julian713: <After 47 years a piece of chess software called Rybka, the strongest commercial chess software today, spotted this move [23.Rxh5!!] overlooked by Fischer, all GM commentators, including Kasparov, who only gave the alternative 23. f5!?> |
And why, exactly, is this such a big deal, considering that Fischer plays the move just two turns later? With the same result??>
Because the next moves up to 26.Rxh5 aren’t forced – instead of the suicidal 23…Bxc3? which parts with the main defender of the black king, Gligoric could have defended much better; best is probably <23…Bb5!> To break up the linkage of the knights at c3 and e2, which cements together White’s position, and exchange queens. For example (to quote Kasparov’s analysis, which builds on Hubner’s): 24.Nxb5 (24.Qxd6 Qxd6 25.Rxd6 Bxc3 26.Nxc3 Nxf4) 24...Qxb5 25.Qxb5 (25.c4? Rxc4 26.f5 Qe5 27.f6 Rxe4 28.Nc3 Re3) 25...Rxb5 26.Rxd6 (better might be 26.c3! Rd8 27.Kc2 Rc5 28.Rdf1 and White retains some initiative thanks to the greater potential of his bishop) Rb4 27.c4 b5 28.cxb5 Rxe4 29.Nc3 Rb4 and Black is close to equality.
|Jun-18-10|| ||HeMateMe: As an alternate 'pun' might I suggest "a pet patented sacrifice".|
In M60MG, Fischer talks about the RxN sac on the h file in dragon sicilians, and says "I've made this sacrifice so many times, I should take out a patent on it".
|Jun-19-10|| ||Once: <newzild> Many thanks - a fascinating game.|
|Jun-19-10|| ||David2009: Entertaining game, two questions: |
click for larger view
White (Fischer) to move 27?
(A) How does White win after 27 Qxh5!? Ra5! (freeing the b6-d4-e3 diagonal for the Q to defend) ?
(B) Can Black draw after 27 Rf1 instead of Qxh5, e.g. 27...Be8 28 Bxe6 ?
On-line Crafty link for winning practice: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...
|Jul-28-10|| ||tentsewang: 20. Rxh5!! was Fischer's recommendation, He said once that if you were to play dragon sicilian against Sozen variation then, he's made you easily and with no worry.|
|Jul-31-11|| ||plang: The system 6..Bd7 intending to reach a form of the Dragon dates back to pre WW1; 6..g6? at once is bad after 7 Nxc6..bxc 8 e5 (8..dxe? 9 Bxf7+). 8..Na5? was a waste of time; 8..Nxd4 or 8..Bg7 are better. The tournament book suggests 10..Rc8 as a more consistent continuation. After 15..Qa5 Gligoric said he overrated his position expecting 16 Nd5?! forgetting about the threat of the pawn attack. Hubner thought that 17..Rc6? was a mistake recommending 17..Ne8 18 f4..Qc5 19 Qxc5..Rxc5 with equality. One variation that shows the value of 21 Kb1; if 21 f5?..exf 22 Nd5..Qxa2!.|
|Aug-29-12|| ||TheFocus: This is game 13 in Fischer's <My 60 Memorable Games>.|
|Sep-13-12|| ||Anderssen99: Isn,t 29.g6!! even stronger than 29.bxc3 (The move Fischer played)?|
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