< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 7 OF 8 ·
|Jun-11-11|| ||perfidious: <joel> Here's a later game in the line; I don't think it's an accident that Black players have typically avoided all this, and in my days of playing the Najdorf, I'd never have grabbed that pawn-a little hot for my liking!|
|Jun-13-11|| ||DrMAL: This game is a favorite, it fascinates me with its creativity, richness in tactics and brilliant play. It's interesting to me why Tal played 8...b4 against 16 year old Fischer. Perhaps he wanted to "throw it on a computer" out of curiosity and fun.|
From all the bad press on 8...b4 it's unexpected that top engines evaluate it as sound, especially if followed by 9...Bb7 instead of immediate 9...Nxe4 a slight difference. For example, even at d=22, Rybka evaluates 8...Bb7 at -0.19 and 8...b4 at 0.07 as second best. Moreover, the game demonstrates its soundness. Fischer plays exactly the same choice as Rybka 4.1 under deep computation move by move, until 16.Bxc8 where Rybka's first choice is basically a toss-up.
17.Bf4 is the first real departure where 17.Rf2 and 17.c3 are evaluated as nearly the same and 17.g3 a very close third. Here, Rybka's evaluation drops by 0.6 to +0.3. These computer results have meaning to me because there are too many continuations to evaluate confidently. Both players are simply amazing to me here. I don't think 17.Bf4 created a missed opportunity as Fischer later stated, white's attack is far from decisive.
After 20.Bxb8 the position is evaluated dead equal where 20.Bxe7 adds around 0.2 in white's favor. After re-capture, Fischer could have played 22.Rae1 for a draw but instead he played the only other good move, 22.Qc6+ giving about half a pawn worth of advantage to black. 24.Rxf7 instead of 24.Qf6 seems to be the first real mistake up to now, evaluated as giving black a whole point more.
Both players continued with great accuracy until Tal simplified with 32...Qc6+ to exchange queens, then both seemed to running into minor time trouble. After move 40, black is evaluated as winning with over two pawns advantage. 45.a3 sealed white's fate after a historical battle!
|Jun-13-11|| ||bronkenstein: Reposted from Fischer`s page:
<Few more details from that game , Fischer vs Tal, 1959 . Move 22 , and fischer is thinking over , probably winning , 22. Rae1 ! . Lets give word to Mikhail Tal :
<"Every player has his own habit: one will first make his move and then write it down, while another will do things the other way around. Incidentally, in recent years Fischer has actively objected to this 'other way round', expressing the opinion that a scoresheet is not a black-board for writing down exercises. However, in our game Fischer first wrote down the move 22.Rae1!, without a doubt the strongest, and wrote it not in his usual English notation but in European, almost Russian! Then he not very deftly pushed the scoresheet towards me. 'He's asking for an endorsement', I thought to myself, but how was I to react? To frown was impossible, if I smiled he would suspect 'trickery', so I did the natural thing. I got up and began to calmly walk up and down the stage. I met Petrosian, made some joke to him, and he replied. The 15-year-old Fischer, who was essentially still only a large child, sat with a confused expression on his face, looking first at the front row of spectators where his second was sitting, and then at me..
Then he wrote down another move. 22.Qc6?, and after 22...Rd7 23.Rae1+ Be7 24.Rxf7 Kxf7 25.Qe6+ Kf8! 26.Qxd7 Qd6 I held on to my extra piece and adjourned the game in a won position. When I later asked Fischer why he hadn't played 22.Rae1, he replied: 'Well, you laughed when I wrote it down!'" - Mikhal Tal >>
|Jun-13-11|| ||DrMAL: Pretty hilarious LMAO!|
|Jun-17-11|| ||DrMAL: Funny thing is that move 22 was not at all decisive, it was Fischer's much bigger mistake on move 24!|
On move 22, Rybka 4.1 evaluates (Rae1 can get perpetual):
[+0.00] d=18 22.Rae1 Kd8 23.Rxe7 Bxe7 (0:11:04) 107755kN
[-0.61] d=18 22.Qc6+ Rd7 23.Rae1+ Be7 (0:14:26) 142785kN
Whereas on move 24, the evaluation is (lines also truncated):
[-0.61] d=18 24.Qf6 Kd8 25.Qxf7 Re8 (0:21:34) 177060kN
[-1.53] d=18 24.Rxf7 Kxf7 25.Qe6+ Kf8 (0:22:53) 189544kN
Back then stories could be made even more amusing by embellishing move evaluations.
|Jun-17-11|| ||Ratt Boy: <ChessYouGood: Fischer is out of his depth against a much stronger player.>|
Years later, Tal said "That was when Tal was Tal. But Fischer was not yet Fischer."
|Jun-18-11|| ||DrMAL: Tal was very modest. By 1961 Tal was no longer Tal, his health was bad. He rematch with Botvinnik showed this.|
|Oct-01-11|| ||SChesshevsky: I'm wondering if Fischer would've had a much better chance of winning a position like after 14...exf5 or 16...Qxc8 later in his career say 1966 or 70?|
Reading in My 60 MG's it does seem he regrets not taking more positional care with his weaknesses on g2, a4, the diagonal a8-h1 and a probable tempo loss with the K on g1. He specifically mentions moves like 15.Bf3 and 17.c3.
By taking more positional care can White get to an endgame where he can take advantage of his Qside pawn majority and Black's isolated pawns?
|Nov-09-11|| ||DrMAL: <SChesshevsky> Interesting question. Actually, 15.Bxf5 computes as strongest move with 15.Bf3 second, advantage white for both but far from decisive. 17.Bf4 was mistake as Fischer acknowledged but here 17.Rf2 computes as best with 17.c3 close second, smaller advantage white (than on move 15) even further from decisive.|
Fischer ego was colossal and his analysis in book tends to feed into this, I guess he never imagined computers being able to easily expose motivation behind his conjectures. 18.Qf3 offering Q trade or sac was good idea to try for something but Tal's play during next few moves made it backfire, pressure was back on Fischer to not lose from it.
And Fischer immediately started to go wrong with 22.Qc6+ instead of positional move 22.Rae1 but he corrected himself next move, showing he was mortal like the rest of us. Attack gave nothing but small advantage to Tal who had played perfectly. When this became apparent, 24.Rxf7? was reckless nosedive against soon to be WC Tal, nice try kid but come back next year LOL.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TAL!
|Nov-29-11|| ||Mimchi1: 52 ... b2! is a beautiful move.|
|Mar-10-12|| ||keithbc: Kingscrusher - a good video but you still did not look at the 'obvious' Bxe7 (rook) why is no-one able to look at this move which wins the exchange?????|
|Jun-23-12|| ||talisman: well... let's quote Bobby...18...xa4..."Such a surprise that I didn't dare believe my eyes! Tal finds an ispired defence!"|
|Jun-23-12|| ||RookFile: This Tal guy was pretty good!|
|Jun-23-12|| ||talisman: <RookFile> you right buddy!|
|Aug-18-12|| ||Snehalshekatkar: What a game!!|
|Aug-23-12|| ||mistreaver: Garry Kasparov in his OMGP book recommends 8 O-O as the most accurate for white. What does he do in the event of 8... b4 9 Na4 Nxe4. Now there is no threats with f pawn, after Re1, or Qf3 black can play d5 followed by Nf6 or even Nc5. Any improvements?|
|Aug-29-12|| ||TheFocus: This is game 17 in Fischer's <My 60 Memorable Games>.|
|Nov-05-12|| ||offramp: Does anyone know which sports event had been canceled on the day of this game (according to Fischer in 60MG)?|
|Nov-05-12|| ||HeMateMe: Harlem Globetrotters v. the West Berlin Reichsfuhrers?|
|Nov-05-12|| ||Nerwal: After 8. 0-0, 8... b4 9. a4 xe4 is simply too dangerous as black is hopelessly behind in development after 10. e1 d5 11. f4 - the opening of the center lines would be instantly fatal. For instance in one of his books Gallagher gives 11. f4 d7 12. c4 bxc3 13. xc3 xc3 14. bxc3 , as xd5 and f5 threats are more than annoying; actually after the natural 14... e7 15. xd5 black is probably already lost. The study of Bc4 sicilian lines, and some Morra lines as well, shows that the seemingly nice e6-d5-e4/e4 constructions aren't that solid when the black king still stands in the center.|
|Nov-05-12|| ||Joshka: <Hesam7> <It's interesting that Fischer did not consider 24. Qf6 in his annotation in "M60MG". Any thoughts?> Correct, but in his updated version from 2007 he writes, "I talked myself out of playing 24. Qf6 Rf8 25. Qxa6 Qb7 26. Qh6 Qd5 27. Qxh7 because I thought that after 24. Rxf7 Kxf7 25. Qe6+ Tal would have to go to g7. His upcoming 25th move was much better."|
|Nov-05-12|| ||perfidious: The fiction continues......|
|Nov-05-12|| ||TheFocus: ...and the world keeps on a'spinnin'.|
|Nov-05-12|| ||harrylime: Tal was bust and he knew it..|
|Nov-06-12|| ||AylerKupp: Yes, that's what made Tal different than Fischer. Tal was bust and he knew it. Fischer was bust and he didn't know it. LOL !|
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