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Robert James Fischer vs Klaus Viktor Darga
FRG-USA (1960), Berlin (W) FRG
French Defense: Winawer. Advance Variation (C19)  ·  1-0


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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jun-13-10  elohah: As Evans notes in his intro, even Bobby's wins against the Winawar are unconvincing.
Jun-13-10  ckeckmate: Fischer's win against Larsen in their first game of 1971 match is pretty convincing.
Jun-14-10  elohah: My note above with 20...Rf6? is in error. And the reason, particularly, that Bobby didn't give 21 Nc7! in answer to 20...Rf6? - even tho he carries out patches of analysis in 60MG in other games almost on the beginner level? Is 21 Nc7! obvious, after 20...Rf6?
Am I just a BUM?? Well, no to the first question, at least. This is still fairly complicated (and instructive) and I ALMOST flopped out here!

Let's see...20...Rf6?

21 Nc7! Raf8! Nice try. White can't chop twice on e7 without gettting back-doored. But of course, what's the problem with just seeing as far as e7 for that B on a3?

It's the unwritten practical rule about trying to always get the absolute MAXIMAL value out of each of your pieces. You should be looking all the way to f8!

22 Nxd5! wins at least the exchange.
And there's no way out, tho I ALMOST - almost, kids - found a perpetual for Black!

22...Rh6! - Threatening ..Rxh2+!
23 Nxe7+ Nxe7 24 Bxe7, wins a piece, and coincidentally enuf, also scotches the perpetual by covering the h4-square. But I didn't shoot to the head of Silman's class without being stubborn:

24...Qg3! "I've got him!!" "There's the perpetual after 25 h3 !"

Not so fast. White has a final POP-UP that shoots it down:

25 Qd5+!

And then 26 h3!

Bobby's the greatest.

Jun-14-10  elohah: But as Adorjan said, nobody can really play perfect Chess. Not computers, not the strongest humans, because it's just too complicated.

The note after 15... again, p.153 -
Fischer-Darga: A] After 15...N4c6 16 Ng5! 0-0! 17 Bg4 Rf6! on 17! is also not considered by Bobby.

And what about it? Black seems to defend after 18 Qe2 Nf5! 19 Bxf5 exf5 20 Rad1 h6! 21 Nh3! Be6 22 Bc1 g5.
What's the answer? The answer is that Black defends, and that Bobby didn't consider this.

On this same page, in Bobby's note after White's move 18:

'Better is the finesse 18 Bh5+! g6'

and here Bobby did not give 19 f5!!
gxh5 20 fe Bc8 21 Qxh5+ Kd8 22 Qxd5+
Ke8 23 Qh5+ Kd8 24 Rad1+ when Black is wiped out.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: <elohah: But as Adorjan said, nobody can really play perfect Chess. Not computers, not the strongest humans, because it's just too complicated.>

On the contrary, I would say that not only is perfect chess possible, but it has quite possibly been done already.

The problem is that we'll never be able to figure out which game it was.

Premium Chessgames Member
  diceman: <elohah:
and here Bobby did not give 19 f5!!
gxh5 20 fe Bc8 21 Qxh5+ Kd8 22 Qxd5+
Ke8 23 Qh5+ Kd8 24 Rad1+ when Black is wiped out.>

Probably because of 19...O-O-O
or 20...O-O-O

When blacks not wiped out.

Jul-28-10  tentsewang: French Defense: Winawer. Advance Variation is one of my favorite play against black opponent. Fischer vs Petrosian '70 is a great help with an annotation by Fischer himself.
Sep-16-10  Petrosianic: What are the circumstances of this game? According to My 60 Memorable, it was played under "strict tournament conditions", but Lou Hays complete book of Fischer's games has it filed under Exhibition and Skittles Games. It's the only game Fischer played in this event, whatever it was, and I'm not finding any information on it in Chess Life or Chess Review, although it's probably tucked in there somewhere.
Sep-16-10  TheFocus: This was a team match played before the Leipzig Olympiad. US won 4.5 - .5. Sometimes titled Berlin Team Tournament.

More details tomorrow. Work is over and I need beer.

Sep-16-10  Petrosianic: Lou Hay's book describes it as "Berlin Team Tournament", but this event isn't listed in Fischer's playing record. Was it a one-off warmup match between the US and West German teams that went to Leipzig? Or was it part of a larger event? Did the US and/or BRD teams play anyone else in this "tournament"?

Looking at Petrosian's record, it's peppered with lots of one-off team matches that weren't part of an Olympiad (especially in 1954, when he had a half dozen of them just marked USSR vs. Argentina, USSR vs. Uruguay, et cetera). But the only Fischer games I know of that seem to fit this bill are this game, and the one against Sliwa, and they never seem to get listed on his playing record.

I actually met Darga briefly, years back. He and my dad were working at the same IBM installation in Boblingen.

Sep-16-10  kingfu: Disregarding the blitz and simul games, Fischer was 19 wins , 6 draws and 7 losses as White against all French variations. There are no French Defenses after 1971. However in 1970 and 1971 , Fischer munged The French.

Too bad we never had a Fischer - Korchnoi French!

Sep-17-10  kingfu: There was one Fischer-Korchnoi French but alas was a blitz game.
Sep-17-10  TheFocus: <Petrosianic> I consider the team matches against Poland (Sliwa) and the match against Germany (Darga) to be OFFICIAL and count them in Bobby's playing record. These were legitimate team matches and should be counted as such. I also include Bobby's exhibition games against Larsen and Andersson. To me, a one game exhibition is still a match and if it is played under strict tournament style, should be counted as such.

I do not have much information on the match with Germany, but Eliot Hearst covered the match with Poland and the Varna Olympiad that followed extensively in Chess Life. As I told Eliot Hearst, it was one of his best articles in Chess Life.

Many people do not count the match series that Capablanca played before his match with Corzo as OFFICIAL, but I do. The matches were played under tournament rules. In that regard, Corzo comes off with a life-time plus score against Capablanca by 7-6, as Corzo beat Capa in both games there and in both games in the Cuba Championship tournament. I have even seen in most Capablanca biographies that the actual Cuba Championship is not included in Capa's playing record and yet his match with Corzo is. Why? Capa finished with a minus score in 4th place. Doesn't help out the invincibility myth to include that result.

Sep-17-10  Petrosianic: Yeah, I'm thinking that they should count. I'm putting together a collection of all Fischer games, with Fritz analysis, and all the correct information like dates and round numbers, that online .pgn files usually leave off. I've broken it up into separate Classical and non-Classical files. Fischer's playing record in 60 Memorable Games doesn't mention either event, but it does say that the Darga game was played under "strict tournament conditions", which would meet my definition of "Classical".

I'm not sure about the Larsen and Anderson games, though. The Larsen game is always described as "Exhibition game played on Danish TV", which could mean a lot of things.

Sep-17-10  Petrosianic: <Eliot Hearst covered the match with Poland and the Varna Olympiad that followed extensively in Chess Life. As I told Eliot Hearst, it was one of his best articles in Chess Life.>

Considering that Hearst is one of the best columnists Chess Life ever had, that's no small compliment. If it's in his column, I'll find it. Now that you mention it, I vaguely remember reading him comment on the Sliwa game when I was in High School (my school library had the annuals for 1962 and 1963, which were very old even then, and which I never got to see again until the DVD set came out a few years ago).

Sep-17-10  TheFocus: <Petrosianic> A good source for dates and round numbers would be Lou Hays book on Bobby's career. Karsten Mueller's book did not put the rounds in correct order. A serious error for an otherwise excellent book.
Sep-17-10  Petrosianic: I've been using that. Sometimes he only has the month, and not the actual day, but he's pretty good about it. With his book, I've been able to put the Miagmasuren and Korchnoi games from Sousse into the proper order, which is not the same as the round order.
Sep-17-10  Damianx: Yes your right elohah he never had it all perfect at 14 how strange ,just most of it took him right up to the age of 20 to be complete
Sep-18-10  Petrosianic: Oh, I found it. It wasn't in his regular column, it was an article called "On Tour Behind the Iron Curtain".
Sep-18-10  TheFocus: <Petrosianic> That is right. I believe Eliot quit writing for Chess Life at the end of that year - 1962, or maybe 63 or 64. Can't remember as I was just skimming through those last two years.

He is quite a good guy. He shared some stuff with me about Bobby Fischer for my book.

Sep-18-10  Petrosianic: 1964. I saw his last column when I bought the complete 1964 set on Ebay several years back; shortly before the DVD set became available. He left it open that he might return later, but as far as I know, he never did.
Sep-19-10  kingfu: I quoted the Fischer French stats to illustrate that Fischer was not as bad against the French as we thought.

Did The Soviets have Petrosian instruct Spassky on the French for The Match? It was not played so I do not think so. Where was Geller in 1972??

TheFocus, when can we expect The Book? I will be first in line to have it signed! I want it signed, TheFocus!!!!

You convey much (and deep) knowledge of the Fischer Beast. I am amazed and amused and confused when it comes to even the most elementary understanding of Robert James Fischer. That includes his life and his chess games and everything!

Will there be some psychology in the book? I hope so. That aspect of his life may be central to all.

Sep-19-10  morphy2010: The french winawer was the most effective weapon vs. Fischer of any openigs possible
Aug-29-12  TheFocus: This is game 24 in Fischer's <My 60 Memorable Games>.
Feb-22-14  clement41: The Bb5 d3 sequence is interesting
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