< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Mar-14-07|| ||Billy Ray Valentine: Another great Keres-Fischer encounter. I can't believe there isn't more kibitzing on this game. 72. Qe5!! is amazing. That would make a great puzzle...|
|Mar-14-07|| ||Billy Ray Valentine: I seemed to have lost my copy of My 60 Memorable Games. Does it say anything about what Fischer expected instead of 72. Qe5 which was played?|
I just remember Fischer writing about 72. Qe5 with something like: "What's this? White makes no attempt to stop me from queening. As I looked at the position, I began to realize I had no win."
|Mar-15-07|| ||Gregor Samsa Mendel: After 71...Kh7! Fischer wrote:
"Haven--at last. Now I was sure I had him. Surely he would go in for 72 Bf5+, Qxf5; 73 Qxg2, Qf4+!; 74 Qg4 (on 74 Kh3, Qh6+! wins), Qxg4+; 75 Kxg4, Kg6! gaining the opposition and winning White's last Pawn by force.
What's this? He makes no attempt to stop me from queening!? Gradually my excitement subsided. The more I studied the situation, the more I realized Black had no win."
|Mar-16-07|| ||Billy Ray Valentine: Thanks for posting that, <Gregor Samsa Mendel>. Even though I've never been a Fischer fan I've always thought that My 60 Memorable Games is very enjoyable and insightful reading...|
|Aug-17-07|| ||Some call me Tim: One of the great stalemate positions of all time. Very atypical. An example of a draw that is a brilliancy!|
|Nov-27-07|| ||maxi: A truly memorable game. Two years ago <sucaba> wrote that Fischer said that it was still possible to win after 56...Rxa3! but that he could not see the win after 59.Bh3. It does seem like a clear draw. The Bh3 hampers the advance of the pawns and simultaneously protects the N in f1. However, there is even a more obvious, straightforward draw with 57.Qe6 and it is impossible to stop the perpetual check. As a matter of fact if Black is not careful he can easily get into an inferior position.|
It seems to me that Fischer was paying a little too much attention to the advance of the White d4 pawn as the draw enforcer. Another example is his comment to move Keres' move 59.Bd7. He says "The idea is to advance the Pawn to d6 without allowing ...Qc5+." Well, yes, but Black had the horrible threat of ...Ra1 and ...Qf6 with an attack on the two weak points f1 and f2. So 59.Bd7! had to be played immediately to stop this attack.
|Nov-27-07|| ||RookFile: This is a great game, any way you look at it. Next time somebody spouts nonsense about how today's players defend more resourcefully, are more tenacious, blah, blah, blah, show them this game.|
|Nov-27-07|| ||Whitehat1963: Just out of curiosity, what happens if 72...g1=Q 73. Bf5+ Qg6?|
|Nov-28-07|| ||maxi: You know, <Whitehat1963>, this game was almost played at your year. Fischer does not annotate 72...g1=Q. As far as I can tell, after 73. Bf5+ Qg6 74. Bg6+ Kg6 (Black cannot fight a Bishop down) 75.Qg5+ is a perpetual check, again, as Forrest Gump would put it.|
|Apr-12-08|| ||nuwanda: I think there is a bit more about the famous position after blacks 71...Kh7.|
I put the position into my comp to see whether and how fast he could find 72.Qe5 and to my big surprise he found three other moves that lead to a draw, namely 72.Qe3, 72.Bg4 and 72. Bc8.
This is mainly due to the fact that 72...g1Q is not a threat, because then 73.Bf5 Qxf5 74.Qg7 is stalemate again. A fact that Fisher doesnt mention in his book (nor does Timman in his book about the Curacao Tournament)and that he was obviously not aware of !?
So, given this, the question arises what is the threat of black in the position after 71...Kh7 and whether it would be won even if black would be allowed to move again (white passes).
And i think, it is not won. The only thing my comp and i came around is 72...a6. This ends all stalemate dreams of white, but on the other hand gives white a powerful passer too. A possible variation is 73.Bf5 Qxf5 74. bxa Qf1 which should be a perpetual after 75.Qc7.
Strange enough, i never heard or read anything like that on this famous game, and did Fisher really dont know that !?
|Jan-08-09|| ||WhiteRook48: wow so this guy can force Fischer into a draw!! Amazing!! Or maybe was Fischer playing for a draw? No, that can't be.|
|Jan-20-09|| ||WhiteRook48: amazing 73. Bh3 here.|
|Feb-16-09|| ||IMlday: In Fischer's 2007 notes he still considers 56..Rh3+ as ? but his 1969 suggestion 56..Rxa3 also ? because of 57.Qe6! aiming for perp. So he likes now the simplifying idea to take the ♕s off by 56..Rf3! 57.Kg1 Rf4 58.Qe5+ Qxe5 59.dxe5 and then Black plays to trade p/e5 for p/g4, collect the a-pawn, set up p/h3 and K/h4 and finally force the B to c6 when the R hits that square to enforce ..a7-a5! and eventually (105..h2+) winning.|
|Mar-19-09|| ||WhiteRook48: 73... Qxh3+!|
|Apr-23-09|| ||JonDSouzaEva: See Mrs Alekhine's page for the reasons why "My 61 Memorable Games" is not the work of Fischer.
User: Mrs. Alekhine|
|Sep-12-09|| ||TheMacMan: this games pretty funny, funny comments from fischer too,|
|Jun-22-10|| ||elohah: 13...Bxe2? - NOOOOOOO, Bobby!
|Jun-22-10|| ||elohah: It doesn't MATTER if Bobby could have justified this move on move 26 by playing the better 26...Nf5! (p. 228, 60MG), 13...Bxe2? is a BAD move, do not play Chess like this, kids!|
|Jun-22-10|| ||tonsillolith: Another boring game from Drawl Keres and Bobby Drawscher...|
|Jul-08-12|| ||RandomVisitor: After 59.Bd7
click for larger view
Rybka 4.1 x64:
[-1.61] d=21 <59...g2> 60.Qxg2 Qxg2+ 61.Kxg2 Kf6 62.Kf2 h3 63.Bc6 Ke5 64.Nh2 Rd3 65.Nf1 Kd6 66.Nh2 Rc3 67.Nf3 Rb3 68.Nh2 Rd3 69.Nf3 Ra3 70.Bb7 Rb3 71.Bc6 Rc3 72.Nh2 Ke5 73.Nf3+ Kf4 74.d6 Rc2+
|Aug-29-12|| ||TheFocus: This is game 37 in Fischer's <My 60 Memorable Games>.|
|Jun-02-13|| ||AhBengI: Has anyone tried 72...Qc4+? I couldn't find any analysis of that move.|
|May-04-14|| ||newzild: Some notes from running this game quickly through Stockfish:|
1) The computer agrees with Fischer's own observation that the plan Bg4xe2 was weak. It was better to position the light-squared bishop on e6, either move 12 or move 13. Prior to the exchange, Stockfish thought Fischer had close to a one-pawn advantage (-0.96).
2) Instead of 20...Qc7, Stockfish prefers to open the a-file with 20...a6.
3) 22. Nh2? was a mistake, for reasons too arcane to reproduce here, but note that this knight ends up blocking the Bb2. The computer prefers 22. Ng3.
4) 30. Nxd4? was a bad mistake, increasing Black's advantage from half a pawn to 1.25 pawns. It could have been refuted by 30...Qd8! After the White knight moves, Black plays Nc2-d4, White exchanges knights on that square, and Black's queen recaptures with check (and an attack). Fischer's 30...Bxe5? gave the advantage to White.
5) White's plan of moving his king to the h-file was weak. After 39. Kh2? the advantage shifted back to Black - until he played 39...Rf4?
6) Much stronger than 40. Qe7+? was 40. Qe5+! Kh7 41. Ng5+.
7) The position was dead equal for many moves until 53. Kg3?
8) 56...Rh3+? gave up most of the advantage, as Fischer noted. Better was 56...Rf3! 57. Kg1 Rf4 58. Qe5+ Qxe5 59. dxe5 Rf5 60. d6 Re6, with two strong passed pawns.
9) After 58. d5, best was 58...Rf3, with advantage to Black.
10) Stockfish's moves match the players for most of the remaining game until 72. Qe5!! Stockfish prefers 72. Bg3!!, which also draws, e.g.. 72...g1=Q 72. Bf5+! with similar perpetual check/stalemate themes to the game (72...Qxf5 73. Qg7+!!)
|Jul-09-14|| ||Howard: So, therefore, Fischer's 56...Ra3 would not have won after all, correct ?|
|Aug-29-14|| ||Howard: So would 56...Rxh3 or 56...Rf3 have been the better move ?|
And now it appears (see above) that 72.Qe5 !! was NOT the only way to draw ?!
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