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Arpad Elo vs Robert James Fischer
New Western Open (1957), Milwaukee, WI USA, rd 2, Jul-04
Sicilian Defense: Najdorf. Amsterdam Variation (B93)  ·  0-1
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Given 68 times; par: 80 [what's this?]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Oct-29-09  chillowack: <pericles of athens: I dont understand 18. ... Nh5> It's a double-attack: the knight attacks the queen, thus "discovering" an attack on the e5-bishop by the g7-bishop.

If 19.gxh5 then Bxe5, with another double attack, on the queen and knight; so Black wins a pawn.

Elo no doubt saw this "trap," but calculated that he would still wind up ahead by a pawn. In my opinion he wasn't losing until he misplayed the ending.

Oct-29-09  WhiteRook48: no, 48 Bb7 Kd4! and black wins
Dec-25-09  RandomVisitor: After 42.Bb7! white can hold, as stated above:


click for larger view

Rybka 3: 6-piece tablebases in use

<[-0.27] d=36 42...Bh5> 43.Kf2 Bf7 44.Ke3 Bc4 45.Bc8 Bb3 46.Ba6

[-0.27] d=36 42...Bb5 43.Kf3 Bc4 44.Bc8 Bd3 45.Bf5 Ba6 46.Ke3 Bc4 47.Bc8 Bb3 48.Ba6

[-0.27] d=36 42...Ba4 43.Kf3 Bb3 44.Bc8 Bc2 45.Bf5 Ba4 46.Ke3 Bb5 47.Bg4

Dec-25-09  RandomVisitor: Black might have gotten more out of 18...Nxe4! 19.Nxe4 Qxe5 .
Dec-25-09  RandomVisitor: After 42...Kd4 White <might> be able to hold by sacking the c-pawn and moving the bishop to g6.


click for larger view

Rybka 3: 6-piece tablebase in use

<[-1.69] d=35 43.Kf2> Ba4 44.c5 Kxc5 45.Bf7 Kd4 46.Bg6 Ke5 47.Kf3 Bd7 48.Kg3 Bc8 49.Kf3 Kd4 50.Be8 Be6

[-1.69] d=35 43.Bb7 Bh5 44.Kf2

Dec-25-09  mojonera: arpad elo did not invented the rating system or uscf rating system , it was created by kenneth harkness .
Dec-25-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  alexmagnus: <arpad elo did not invented the rating system or uscf rating system , it was created by kenneth harkness .> So can we call this game a matchup of fake inventors? ;) Elo didn't invent the Elo system while Fischer didn't invent "Fischer clock".
Mar-04-12  screwdriver: Nice to see both great players played at the Northwestern tournament in Milwaukee.
Jun-25-12  hottyboy90: So if 42.Bb7 can't Black just play Bb5 and thus maneuver his bishop to attack the e4 pawn??
Jun-25-12  Chess Magician: After 42..Kd4 there was a zugzwang sort of position for white, Elo should resign at that point.
Jun-29-12  hottyboy90: Chess Magician,if 42.Bb7 black can't play Kd4.
Jun-29-12  hottyboy90: I realize you were referring to the actual game and not the possibilities within.
Jul-01-13  BKITU: Elo, goodbye.
Jul-02-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: Ole Elo.
Nov-23-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: <alexmagnus: <arpad elo did not invented the rating system or uscf rating system , it was created by kenneth harkness .> So can we call this game a matchup of fake inventors? ;) Elo didn't invent the Elo system while Fischer didn't invent "Fischer clock".>

Who invented the 'Fischer Clock' then ?

And who the hell is Kenneth Harkness ? lol

I must admit the 'elo rating' sounds much better the the 'harkness rating' ...

Anyways .... One things' for certain... There's nothin 'fake' about Bobby's chess.

Dec-20-13  AlbertodaCruz: merry christmas and that our dreams come true in 2014
Mar-27-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  thegoodanarchist: <RookFile: I've thought about that too, Capa.... you got a smile from me.

I think Elo was pretty good, like 2200 or something.>

That seems low for a player who won his state championship multiple times.

Sep-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  GrahamClayton: Jonathan Speelman analyses this game extensively in his book "Endgame Preparation", and states that White lost because he didn't give up material until he was in a worse position. As mentioned in some of the kibitzing, the drawing idea is to advance the c-pawn to draw away the Black king, in order to:

a) getting his bishop to f5 while keeping the Black king out of e3, or b) getting his own king to e3.

Instead of 46. ♔g3, 46. ♗b7 ♔xc4 47. ♗c8 ♔d4 48. ♗f5 draws, one line being 48...g4 49. ♔g3 ♔e3 50. ♗g6 ♗e2 51. ♗h7 ♗f3 52. ♗f5.

Sep-13-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Bobby Spassky: Arpad Elo did invent the rating system we have now. Harkness created a hack job which Elo replaced with a system based on reality.

"Arpad Elo was a master-level chess player and an active participant in the United States Chess Federation (USCF) from its founding in 1939.[3] The USCF used a numerical ratings system, devised by Kenneth Harkness, to allow members to track their individual progress in terms other than tournament wins and losses. The Harkness system was reasonably fair, but in some circumstances gave rise to ratings which many observers considered inaccurate. On behalf of the USCF, Elo devised a new system with a more sound statistical basis."

Sep-26-15  Esauwept: Can someone please explain to a beginner the end of this game: how exactly does he win. Thanks
Sep-26-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: <Esauwept> The e pawn will be captured by the combined action of Black King and Bishop.

With King, Bishop, and two pawns vs a King and Bishop, Fischer would win in his sleep.

Sep-26-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: Hi Esauwept.

The White e-pawn is going to fall, it is the Bishop of same colour that is doing the damage.

This is a win.


click for larger view

Move the Black Bishop one square and it's a draw.


click for larger view

How are you going to get the King off g4 and the Bishop from covering f5.

The method:

That is the annoying thing about good players games, they tend to resign too early and leave us asking questions.

So we let our peers guide us. Two instructive games should help.

http://www.redhotpawn.com/chess/che...

Go to move 53 and play on.

That should give you an idea of how to go about winning this.

(I had another ready but posted the wrong link. I'll find another.)

Sep-26-15  Esauwept: Thanks!Really helpful!
Sep-26-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: Here are another two.

http://www.redhotpawn.com/chess/che...

Go to move 53.

and

http://www.redhotpawn.com/chess/che...

Go to move 59 and play on.

Nov-20-16  rea: <em> um El what were you thinking, oh playing Fisher must have meant the end for you.</em>

Fischer wasn't famous at the time--he was just 14, and wouldn't win the US Championship or become a GM until the next year.

search thread:   
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