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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 6 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
May-25-07
 | | YouRang: <MostlyAverageJoe> You're right, you can take it with Nxb2+ - and it is better to do so. But in my mind, I thought that it didn't matter if I played 33...Nxb2+ or 33...Qc1+ first, since I win the rook either way. But it does matter. And even if you play 33...Nxb2+ first, you still have to proceed accurately. :-) |
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May-25-07
| | YouRang: <newton296> Yes, I thought they were interchangeable too. But I was wrong. :-p |
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May-25-07
 | | MostlyAverageJoe: <YouRang> Looks like you came up with a worthy puzzle here. I'm too busy to give it more thought, but does it have anything to do with the threat occurng after white advances the pawn to g6? |
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May-25-07
| | YouRang: <MostAverageJoe> Bingo! Okay, here's the flaw, after 33...Qc1+? 34. Ke2 Nxb2 (diagram:white to move):
click for larger view
35. g6!! ...the mate threat has been resurrected! It seems that I underestimated white's counter-attack potential. :-( If 35...fxg6, then 36. Qxe6+ Kxg7 37. Qe5+, and white has at least a perpetual check. If 35...Qc4+, then 36. Kf2 Qxf5+ 37. Kg1, black is out of checks and his knight at b2 is hung.  If 35...h5, then 36. Qxh5 fxg6 37. Qh8+ Kf7 38. g8=Q+! Rxg8 39. Qxb2, leaving white with a bishop for 3 pawns - probable draw. |
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| May-25-07 | | newton296: YOURANG!! good Question though, what is the flaw! I cant see why u can't interchange the moves?? other than why not play nxb2+ right away since it wins the rook with tempo and both rooks if rxr due too ...Qc1+ I can't find the problem .. Hmm!! ?? |
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May-25-07
| | YouRang: By the way, the correct move was 33...Nxb2+ 34. Ke2! and white must still avoid the g6 threat: 34...Qc4+!
35. Kf3 Qe4+ (guarding g6)
36. Kg5 Nc4 and the knight is safe. Black's pawn advantage should win. |
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May-25-07
| | YouRang: Oops again - In the diagram above, I show the position AFTER 35. g6, not before, as erroneously indicated. *sigh* |
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| May-25-07 | | RookFile: Yeah, I was about to say, if it's white to move, where I come from, that looks like checkmate. |
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| May-25-07 | | newton296: strange that at move 17) minic sees nd5 forking q and r but then tries to exploit the weak d5 square with nf5 instead of the more forcing nxe6!! which is Probably winning!! SAd oversight that prevents this game from being a brilliance for him!! |
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| May-25-07 | | newton296: props! to minic for a great game , totally steamrolling fisher only too miss the win at move 17! |
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| May-25-07 | | RookFile: It's not my memory that Minic had a win at any point in this game. Anything's possible, though. |
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May-25-07
| | YouRang: <RookFile: Yeah, I was about to say, if it's white to move, where I come from, that looks like checkmate.> And if it's a Friday puzzle and it looks like mate-in-one, where I come from, it looks like I'm mistaken about who's turn it is to move. ;-) |
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| May-25-07 | | IMDONE4: got everything up to Ke1, but did not see Ne4 |
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| May-25-07 | | Whitehat1963: O.K., so what happens after 35. Qe3? |
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| May-25-07 | | IMDONE4: Qe3, Qc3, trade N for B, push pawns, call it a day |
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May-25-07
| | YouRang: <Whitehat1963: O.K., so what happens after 35. Qe3?> Pretty much basic chess. 35...Qc3 (as <IMDONE4> suggests) works. The computer likes 35...Qg2. I'm inclined to 35...a5. Might as well being the march now, as white is ill-positioned to stop it. if 36. Bxe4, then 36...Qb4+ & 37...Qxe4. Trade queens, put my rook behind the a-pawn and there's no stopping the pawns on both sides of the board.  . |
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| May-25-07 | | mvnonup08: Too much book in this game.... |
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| May-25-07 | | Crowaholic: Rxb2+ occurred to me immediately, but checking whether it's sound was difficult. I arrived at 29. ..Rxb2+ 30. Rxb2 Nc3+ 31. Kc1 Qa3! just like in the game, but then mostly analyzed 32. Rd2 and found Black to be winning. I then looked at the game move by move and after seeing 32. Bd3! I considered 32. ..Na4+ to be best (a good continuation is 33. Kd2 Qxb2+ 34. Ke1 Qxg7). But Fischer's Qa1+ is, of course, better according to computers. The Na4+ line secures only a solid two pawn advantage requiring accurate play in the endgame. |
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| May-25-07 | | maxundmoritz: The computer helped me find this very quiet, but poisoned pawn move: 29. Kb1 Rxb2+ 30. Rxb2 Nc3+ 31. Kc1 Qa3 32. Bd3
and now
32... h5 33. Qxh5 Nxd1+ 34. Kd2 Qxb2+ 35. Ke1 Qc3+ 36. Ke2 Qxg7 37. Kxd1 Qb2 38. Qh7+ Kf8 39. Bc2 Ke7 40. Qd3 Rc3 41. Qd2 Rh3 42. Qg2 Rh1+ 43. Qxh1 Qa1+ 44. Kd2 Qxh1 |
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| May-25-07 | | backyard pawn: I solved the puzzle for white pretty quickly, then thought, "this isn't Monday." Solving for black was another story. 34..., Ne4 was a slick move. |
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| May-26-07 | | gulliver:
29.........Nc3+
30. K-c2 Rxb2
31. Kxb2 Q-b4+
32. K-c2 Nb1+
33. K-d3 Q-e4++
30. Ka1 R-a4++ |
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| May-26-07 | | TipYaKing: I've considered today's puzzle [Minic vs Fischer 1970] and I have found a good alternative to Fischer's 29)...Rxb2+. Has anyone considered 29)...Nc3+ which would cause the king to go on a "Royal Stroll"? You wouldn't play 30)Ka1 Ra4 [mate]. But if 30)Kc2 is played, 3 lines follow; 2 ending in mate, the other in a won position for black. Moves 29-31 are the same on all 3. 29)...Nc3+ 30)Kc2 Ne4+ 31)Kc3 Rb3+ 1ST = 32)Ke2 Rc2+ 33)Ke1 Qb4+ 34)Rd2 Rc1+ 35)Ke2 Qxd2 mate. 2ND = 32)Ke2 Rc2+ 33)Rd2 Rxd2+ 34)Ke1 Rxh3 35)Rxh3 Qc5 36)... Qc1 mate. 3RD = 32)Kd4 Rc4+ 33)Bxc4 Qc5+ 34)Ke5 Rxh3 35)Rxh3 Qc7+ 36)Kd4 Qxc4+ 37)Ke3 Qb3+ 38)Ke2 Qxh3 [black should win]. If 30)Qxc3 Rxc3, black should win -- though this probably wouldn't be played, because of the mating possibility for white at Qxh7. The only way out for white would be a draw by repetition of moves: 30)Kc1 Ne4 31)Kb1 Nc3+ 32)Kc1... |
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| May-26-07 | | TipYaKing: Good combination gulliver!
29.........Nc3+
30. K-c2 Rxb2
31. Kxb2 Q-b4+
32. K-c2 Nb1+
33. K-d3 Q-e4++
But consider this. After 30. Kc2 Rxb2
King doesn't have to capture Rook.
31. Kd4 can be played and now black loses the immediacy of check and white can now play Qxh7. |
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| May-26-07 | | gulliver: Check yourself carefully again. I checked my solution with care again.
It seems perfectly sound. |
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| May-26-07 | | TipYaKing: After 30. Kc2 Rxb2 King doesn't have to capture Rook.
31. Kd3 can be played and now black loses the immediacy of check and white can now play Qxh7. This is what I meant to write. Of course Kd4 could not be played from Kc2. The King is not forced to capture the Rook. If 31)Kd3... is played, black must now play 31)...Rxh2 to prevent mate. 32. Qxh2 Nxd1
Black still comes out with winning position either way, when 29)...Nc3+ is played. |
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sac: 29...Rxb2+
