|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| May-04-12 | | rilkefan: I got the game line fairly quickly, rather to my surprise, because I was for a while obsessed with 25.QxR/26.Rd8 - except for not considering Qb6+, though it doesn't change things as far as I can tell. |
 |
| May-04-12 | | rilkefan: <dzechiel>, see your comment above from almost four years ago on the same position - it's interestingly different. Maybe having less time now helped you find the correct solution amidst the chaff. Hope your new job is rewarding. |
|
May-04-12
 | | sevenseaman: Black has a P extra but is an exchange down.
First thoughts:
Rd7 poses questions to Black. The e7 B and c8 R are under the cosh. How will Black respond? 25. Rd7
i) 25...Qf6 26. Qxc8+ Bd8 27. Qxd8 or Rxd8 wins.
ii) 25...Bxd7 26. Qxd7 Qf6 27. Qxc8+ Bd8 28. Rd1 wins Black can always play the plausible 26...Qb6+. Kh1 takes the fizz out of it. For example it could go;
25. Rd7 Bxd7 26. Qxd7 Qb6+ 27. Kh1 Re8 ((and Black must face reality)28. Rxe7 Rxe7 29. Bd6 Qxd6 30. Qxd6 The e7 R stays pinned and White is on his way. Black cannot unpin w/o cost. (White needs to mind that he does not become a toast of the back rank mate). |
|
May-04-12
| | sevenseaman: My follow up thoughts indeed were the 34. N move to either f5 or d6. <jimfromprovidence > has accurately dealt with that idea in an earlier comment. |
|
May-04-12
 | | WinKing: <sevenseamanBlack: can always play the plausible 26...Qb6+. Kh1 takes the fizz out of it.> That's what I thought too. Check out 26...Qb6+ 27.Kh1 Qd8!? |
|
May-04-12
 | | M.Hassan: "Difficult" White to play 25.?
White is a pawn down.
25.Rd7 Bxd7
26.Qxd7
White thought he could get the Rook on c8 as well but Black has opportunity to support it. 26...........Qb6+
27.Kh1 Qd8
28.Rxe7 Qxd7
29.Rxd7
And I can't say White wins.
Time to check
--------------
I think Black's 27th move brought downfall for him. Any objections? |
|
May-04-12
 | | agb2002: White has a bishop and a knight for the bishop pair and a pawn. The rook on c8 protects the back rank, the bishop on e6 protects this rook and the rook on e1 x-rays the bishop on e7. These details suggest 25.Rd7: A) 25... Bxd7 26.Qxd7 Re8 27.Rxe7 Rxe7 28.Qd8+ Re8 29.Bd6+ Qxd6 (29... Kg8 30.Qxe8#) 30.Qxd6+ Kg8 31.Qxa6 + - [Q+N vs 2R]. B) 25... Re8 26.Rxe7 Rxe7 27.Qb8+ and mate soon.
C) 25... Rc2 26.Qb8+ and mate soon. |
|
| May-04-12 | | rilkefan: Hmm, stockfish considers Rd3 and Bd6 before settling on the game continuation. It evaluates ...Qd8 as best but +2.5. Black's back rank weakness/poor coordination remains after the forced exchanges on e7 and d7. A typical line: 28. Rxe7 Qxd7 29. Rxd7 h5 30. Kg1 h4 31. Nd4 Rh5 32. h3 Re8 33. Kf2 f6 34. Kf3 Kg8 35. Be3 f4 36. Bxf4 Rc5 37. Bd2 Ree5 38. Bc3 Rcd5 39. Rc7 Kh7 40. Ra7 Rd6 41. Kf4 Rg5 42. Nf5 Rc6 43. Nxh4 Rc4+ 44. Ke3 Rxh4 45. Bxf6 Rg3+ 46. Kf2 Rh6 etc. Is this the second game in a row with an erroneous ...exf5? |
|
May-04-12
| | agb2002: And four years later I overlooked Qb6+ again... |
|
| May-04-12 | | sfm: <ravadi: 24...Qf6 should hold. Any thoughts?>
Hmm, 25.Be5,Qg5 26.h4,Qg6 27.Bd6 looks really nasty.
<M.Hassan: ...
25.Rd7 Bxd7
26.Qxd7, Qb6+
27.Kh1 Qd8
28.Rxe7 Qxd7
29.Rxd7
And I can't say White wins.
I think Black's 27th move brought downfall for him. Any objections?> For sure you are right that it 27.-,Re8? was a faster way to go. After your improvement we have this position, with black to move: 
click for larger viewIt still looks hopelessly lost, though. White takes care of the backrank mate (probably by playing h4), then goes for Black's a-pawn and sails comfortably home. The h8-rook will be hard to free and before that is done Blacks other rook is tied to the back rank. |
|
| May-04-12 | | sfm: To 25.Be5,Qg5 26.h4,Qg6 27.Bd6 I forgot to add 27.-,Qf6 28.Nc5! |
|
May-04-12
 | | Abdel Irada: As so often when a king is caught in the center in an open position, the defender is in essence playing a rook down, since the rook on h8 can't participate in the defense. This invites such sacrificial combinations as 25.  d7!,  xd7; 26.  xd7, b6+; 27.  h1, d8 (27. ...e8; 28. xe7, xe7; 29. d6  ); 28. xe7±. |
|
May-04-12
| | Abdel Irada: Amazing. It seems Salov missed his strongest resource (26. ...b6+); what he played loses much faster. Hard to believe this from a 2700 player. |
|
| May-04-12 | | gofer: There are probably a bunch of good moves in this position; Rd6, Bd6, but the interference move
Rd7 stands out, as it threatens Qxc8+ mating.
<25 Rd7 ...>
25 ... Re8 26 Rxe7 winning becuase the rook is immune 26 ... Rxe7 27 Qb8+ mating <25 ... Bxd7>
<26 Qxd7 ...>
26 ... Re8 27 Rxe7 Rxe7 28 Qd8+ Re8 29 Bd6+ winning the queen <26 ... Qb6+>
<27 Kh1 Qd8>
<28 Rxe7 Qxd7>
<29 Rxd7 ...>
White has exchanged a rook for two bishops and is now "clearly" winning. ~~~
Hmmm. Not sure that black play the right 27th move... |
|
May-04-12
| | sevenseaman: <<WinKing><<sevenseamanBlack: can always play the plausible 26...Qb6+. Kh1 takes the fizz out of it.> That's what I thought too. Check out 26...Qb6+ 27.Kh1 Qd8!?> >Yes it is bit of a surprise move but still a bit overoptimistic. <M.Hassan> has the same idea. It does not cause White any problem. <27. Kh1 Qd8 28. Rxe7 Qxd7 29. Rxd7> I think White is still well-placed to win.
Try this colors reversed Crafty link, you might feel ok with 27...Qd8. http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t... |
|
May-04-12
 | | JohnBoy: I thought for about 3 min and chose 25.Rd6 to interrupt the connection between the e6 bishop and the c8 rook. The move has substantial merit. But it never occurred to me that one could to this more directly. Gelfand's move 25.Rd7 is much more effective. |
|
May-04-12
 | | morfishine: The invasion <25.Rd7> cutting communication between the WSB and rook on <c8> puts Black in a state of chaotic disorganization: After <25...Bxd7 26.Qxd7 Qb6+ 27.Kh1 Re8> (the only move to save a piece) White sacs a second exchange: <28.Rxe7 Rxe7 29.Bd6> Black must give up his Queen to stop mate. Black's King rook doesn't play |
|
| May-04-12 | | LoveThatJoker: Gelfand week!
<25. Rd7! Bxd7>
(25...Qf6 26. Qxc8+ Bd8 27. Rxd8+ Ke7 28. Qc7#; 25...Bc5+ 26. Nxc5 Rxc5 27. Qb8+ mates; 25...Re8 26. Rxe7 Rxe7 27. Bd6! and White wins as 27...Qf6 28. Qd8#) <26. Qxd7 Qc6>
[26...Re8 27. Rxe7 Rxe7 (27...f6 28. Rxe8+ Qxe8 29. Bd6+ mates) 28. Qd8 Re8 29. Bd6+ Qxd6 (forced) 30. Qxd6+ ] <27. Qxe7+ Kg8 28. Nd4 Qa4 29. Nxf5> Pawns are even, White has two pieces for the R, Black's pieces are on the passive side of things and White has both an attack and threats in the position like 30. Qe5. The evaluation here is clearly almost .
LTJ |
|
| May-04-12 | | LoveThatJoker: Full point for today as 26...Qb6+ 27. Kh1 Re8 is clearly inferior to my lines. Furthermore, 26...Qb6+ is not a refutation of 25. Rd7! Bxd7 26. Qxd7 regardless of what course is taken. It is interesting that the line that other fellow kibitzers found on here of 25. Rd7! Bxd7 26. Qxd7 Qb6+ 27. Kh1 Qd8 leads to a position that is somewhat similar to my mainline of 25. Rd7! Bxd7 26. Qxd7 Qc6 27. Qxe7+ Kg8 28. Nd4 Qa4 29. Nxf5 where there is still play left despite White's advantage. LTJ |
|
| May-04-12 | | dragon player: Black's rook is out of play, and white has to use that.
I've looked for forced combinations, but I can't find
anything better than this:
25.Rd6
Now black can't play
25...Bxd6
26.Bxd6+ Kg8
27.Qxc8+ Bxc8
28.Re8#
But I don't see a good continuation after for example
25...Re8.
Time to check.
-------------
OK, I was wrong. I looked at this also but I missed Bd6. By the way, I'm on holiday this weekend, I'll be back
on monday.
4/5 |
|
May-04-12
 | | whiteshark: Got the idea. But I missed the Qb6+ Kh1 moves though it won't change much. |
|
| May-04-12 | | 5hrsolver: After 25.Rd7 Bxd7 26.Qxd7
As Dr. Phil would say to black "You Got Problems". |
|
May-04-12
 | | Memethecat: 25Rd7 Bxd7 (25...Re8 26Rxe7 Rxe7 27Qb8+ Re8 28Bd6+ Kg8 29Qxe8#) 26Qxd7 Re8 (26...Qb6+ 27Kh1 Re8 [27...Rd8 28Qxe7+ Kg8 29Qe8+ Rxe8 30Rxe8#] 28Rxe7 Rxe7 29Bd6 Qxd6 30Qxd6) 27Rxe7 Rxe7 28Qd8+ Re8 29Bd6+ Qxd6 30Qxd6+ an easy win from here. The difficult part is the 1st move 25Rd7 after that its straight forward enough. |
|
May-04-12
| | Memethecat: <Abdel> Solov did play 26...Qb6+, but he should have followed it with 27...Qd8, a move I missed too until just now. |
|
May-04-12
 | | James D Flynn: Black is a pawn up but is obviously vulnerable to back rank mates. The White Q controls the Q side back rank squares except c8 protected, by the B on e6, and d8 protected by the B on e7. White can interpose a piece to block one bishop and at the same time attack the other B by 25.Rd7. Black has no useful checks since 25….Bc5+ is answered by26.Nxc5, he has 2 plausible replies Bxd7 and Re8.
A. 25.Rd7 Bxd7 26.Qxd7 Re8 27.Rxe7 Rxe7 28.Qd8+ Re8 29.Bd6+ Qxd6 30.Qd6+ Kg8 31.Qxa6 and White has a Q and N for 2 Rs, pawns are equal but White has united passed pawns on the Q side which can be readily activated and supported by the pieces whereas Black’s majority on the K side contains no passed pawns, a double pawn, and its advance will subject the K to checks by the Q.
B. 25.Rd7 Re8 26.Rxe7 Rxe7 27.Bd6 Qf6 28.Qb8+ Bc8 29.Qxc8# or 27. h6 28.Bxe7+ Kg8 29.Qxa6. White is a piece up and has united passed pawns on the Q side. Black can double those pawns by BBxb3 but that allows a Q exchange and the win is even clearer. |
|
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
sac: 25.Rd7