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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing > |
Aug-30-04
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| Benzol: <WMD> What reason would Geller have for distorting actual events, what would he have to gain? |
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| Aug-30-04 |
| WMD: Kudos. |
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| Aug-30-04 |
| sneaky pete: <WMD> The Oxford Companion has it wrong. A eyewitness report by Evert Straat (for a Dutch newspaper) states Keres was the second (and Spassky the third) to play 11.Nxe6 .. half an hour after Geller did and only after Geller had played 13.Bb5! .. etc. |
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| Aug-30-04 |
| WMD: Give Efim my apologies next time you see him. I suggest you write to Edward Winter with this discovery, because almost nothing would please him more than correcting the Oxford Companion. |
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| Jun-27-05 |
| calman543: In an old issue of Chess Life magazine they printed the time used per move in each of the three games (called the Gothenburg Trilogy, I believe). The record showed that Spassky and Keres waited for over an hour (making no moves) for Geller to find the winning line. |
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| Jun-29-05 |
| calman543: That's a type of cheating that would be eliminated by Fischer-Random chess. |
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| Jul-01-05 |
| calman543: WMD, I think Efim is is dead now. |
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Jul-01-05
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| keypusher: <WMD, I think Efim is is dead now.> I strongly suspect <WMD> knows that. Why is what Spassky and Keres did cheating, though? |
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| Jul-03-05 |
| calman543: It is a type of cheating because they got to watch someone else find the winning line in a position just like their own. Legal yes, but still. |
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| Aug-12-05 |
| RookFile: This game shows what a terrific player Geller was. He's thrown into
an unfamiliar situation, obviously prepared the experienced Argentinians.
Geller reaches down and finds the most principled move: 13. Bb5!! which had
been overlooked by Panno, Najdorf, etc. before the game. Years later, another strong player found the antidote: 13.... Rh7: Gligoric vs Fischer, 1958
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| Aug-12-05 |
| ughaibu: RookFile: Rh7 was first played at master level in the Soviet Union, no doubt Calman543 would say Fischer cheated by adopting the idea. |
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| Aug-12-05 |
| RookFile: That's interesting, ughaibu. I did a search on chessbase's online site, the earliest game they have with ....Rh7 was Gligorich vs. Fischer. Who were the players that played it before? |
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| Aug-12-05 |
| ughaibu: I dont know, see Clarke's book of Soviet miniatures, I think that's where it's mentioned. |
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Aug-12-05
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| Benzol: <ughaibu> <RookFile> 13... h7 was Keres' suggestion. David Levy points this out in his book 'How Fischer Plays Chess'. |
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| Aug-13-05 |
| ughaibu: Thanks Benzol. |
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| Aug-13-05 |
| RookFile: Sure, thanks <Benzol>. That just deepens my, appreciation for the strength of Geller, Keres, Spassky, etc. The Argentinians spend all this
time getting a system ready: Geller
plays a principled but deep line that had been overlooked, and Keres comes up with the antidote. Those guys really knew how to analyze.
I think too many of today's players rely upon memorizing lines worked out with a computer. |
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| Aug-13-05 |
| ughaibu: RookFile: looking at the more recent games at Chessbase I'd say the line is playable for either side, though I doubt that many players have a stylistic preference for the black side of such an attack. |
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| Aug-13-05 |
| ughaibu: Benzol: I see you quoting in english from the Soviet tournament book, is the entire book available in english? is the 1959 candidates also available in english? |
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Aug-13-05
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| Benzol: <ughaibu> The notes that I quoted about the Soviet Tournament book come from Bernard Cafferty's "Spassky's 100 Best Games". As far as I know Cafferty is fluent in Russian so he probably translated Geller's notes as he was writing his Spassky book. I don't think the rest of the 1955 tournament book has been translated into English and I've never seen anything about the 1959 Candidates either. Perhaps someone else could shed a bit more light on these two tourneys. |
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| Aug-13-05 |
| ughaibu: Okay, a pity. 1955, yes this was the interzonal wasn't it(?), maybe there's a better chance of candidates tournament books being available. |
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| Aug-23-05 |
| Jim Bartle: On a side issue, I seem to read a lot about Najdorf talking and consulting during tournaments, either during his own games or kibitzing others. Is this common, or permitted, or did Najdorf get a pass because everybody liked him so much? |
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Aug-19-08
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| seagull1756: This was the 14th round of interzonal. Tal gives this game in his book 'Attack', which was written together with Damsky and has appeared in print in russia after his death. Surprisingly, he comments after 13... Ne5 'This continuation, PREPARED AT HOME, loses, as well as 13... Kg7, used by other argentinian grandmasters' If Tal knew something we don't, that means that Najdorf had seen 13.Bb5! during his preparation, so in a way playing 9...g5 was altogether bluffing. |
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Nov-07-08
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| Benzol: <ughaibu> <I dont know, see Clarke's book of Soviet miniatures, I think that's where it's mentioned> I didn't have Clarke's book when this was first posted but I think <ughaibu> is remembering the game between Gaspariantz and Eidlin played in 1961.
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Bg5 e6 7.f4 Be7 8.Qf3 h6 9.Bh4 g5 10.fxg5 Nfd7 11.Nxe6 fxe6 12.Qh5+ Kf8 13.Bb5 Rh7 14.O-O+ Kg8 15.g6 Rg7 16.Qxh6 Bxh4 17.Rf7 Qf6 18.Rxf6 Bxf6 19.Be2 Ne5 20.Bh5 Bd7 21.Rf1 Be7 22.Rf7 Nxf7 23.gxf7+ Rxf7 24.Bxf7+ Kxf7 25.Qh5+ 1/2-1/2 Black's Queen sacrifice is an interesting idea so I've uploaded the game into the database and it should appear in due course. |
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| Nov-07-08 |
| nescio: In the Portoroz 1958 tourmnament book Gligoric and Matanovic wrote about Fischer's move 13...Rh7:
"Dies ist eine wichtige Verstärkung! Fischer hat sie auf kleinen Turnieren in der UdSSR wahrgenommen, gut beurteilt und zu Hause gründlich analysiert". So <ughaibu>'s comment <Rh7 was first played at master level in the Soviet Union> was probably common knowledge at the end of the 1950's. Perhaps Fischer told Gligoric himself. The games, although apparently published in Russian magazines, are most likely lost. |
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Nov-20-08
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| Benzol: <nescio> Here's the link to that game Gaspariantz vs Eidlin, 1961 |
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sac: 11.Nxe6
