< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Oct-23-05|| ||Kola: Playing Nh5 or Nf5 first, may work, but playing Bd5 first minimizes white's loss of pieces in the event that black sacked his queen(which he did). Notice that after cd in the game, everything else is forced to mate. Notice also that in the event of Nh5 first, followed by BD5, Black has 3 pieces for the queen. Just imagine the patience required on the part of white to even consider the move order when everything seems to win! I noticed that Rf6 with the intention of Nf5 is indeed devastating. If black takes with Knight, the white's queen wins blacks rook, netting a minor piece. But in the end, Bd5 is "eviler."|
|Oct-23-05|| ||AlexanderMorphy: i missed this one by a mile!|
|Oct-23-05|| ||Halldor: If 23...cxd5? then: 24.Nxh5+ gxh5 25.Qg2+ Kh6 26.Rf5 Ng7 27.Qxg7+! Kxg7 28.Rg5+ Kh6 29.Rhxh5#.|
|Oct-23-05|| ||Brown: <<mdz> in your line 23.Bd5 cd 24.Nxh5+ gh 25.Qg2+ Kh6 26.Rf5 Ng7 27.Qxg7+ Kxg7 28.Rfg5+ Kh6 29.Rhxh5#>> Black can delay mate with 26...Qxd4+, though black is still toast after 27.Rxd4 Nxd4 28.Qg5+ Kh7 29.Qh5+ K(any) 30.Rg5#, alright, that really wasn't much of a delay...|
Having a feel for clearance sacrifices will help seeing these. Bishop gets out of the way so the Queen can come to g2 with check.
|Oct-23-05|| ||Brown: <snowie1> What's your line. You may be right, but let's see if it wins.|
|Oct-23-05|| ||aw1988: No, snowie is right, thanks.|
|Oct-23-05|| ||Brown: and I don't like starting with Rxh5, because that can be answered by 23...Qxd4+ exchanging Queens|
|Oct-23-05|| ||snowie1: <Brown> Sorry, I missed your msg earlier. My point was; instead of the B sac, immediate 23.Nxh5+..Kg8 (no future in taking the N.)24.Nf6+..Nxf6 25.exf6 or immediately, 25.Qh6 followed by Qh8 with no escaping moves for black.|
|Oct-23-05|| ||Brown: What move do you see after 23.Nxh5 gxh5?
If 24.Rxh5 then 24...Qxd4+ forces that darn exchange.
|Oct-23-05|| ||Caissanist: <Brown><snowie1>: I gave that line to Crafty, and the result was pretty funny. The robot says that white's winning move after 23.Nxh5 gxh5 is (drum roll, please...) 24.Bd5!! |
23. ... gxh5 24. Bd5 Qxf1+ 25. Kxf1 cxd5 26. Rxh5 f6 27. Qg2+ Kf7 28. Nxd5 Rg8 29. Qf2 Rg5 30. Rh8 eval +1.87, nodes 231284995
|Oct-23-05|| ||snowie1: Already, I decided Nf5+ is best. And <Brown> if gxf5 24.Rxf5 with R still on h4 and no Q exchange therfore. I don't think black can but resign in the face of ..Kg6 and R5xh6. There can be no checks without losing the Q..no exchange..and if necessary to deliver the coup de grace, the unsac'd B can even play with R & Q.|
|Oct-23-05|| ||Dionyseus: I chose 23.Nxh5, which is apparently the second best move, but still wins. 23.Nxh5 gxh5 24.Bd5 Qxf1+ 25.Kxf1 cxd5 26.Qg2+ Kh6 27.Nxd5 Ng7 28.Qd2+ Kh7 29.Qg5 f6 30.exf6 rxf6+ 31.Nxf6 Nxf6 32.Qxf6 Bf5 33.d5 and white keeps pushing that d pawn and black is forced to give up material, ending with a rook vs queen + extra pawn. |
23.Bd5 is indeed the strongest move, as it clears the g2 square for the queen for a devastating attack against black's king.
23.Nf5+ is the third best move according to Shredder 9.1, and wins. 23.Nf5+ gxf5 24.Bd5 Qxf1+ 25.kxf1 Rh8 26.Bxe6 fxe6 27.d5 exd5 28.Qf5+ Kf7 29.Qxf5+ Kf8 30.Qg6 Kd8 31.e6 b6 32.Rxh5 Rxh5 33.Qxh5 Nc5 34.Qe5 and white's queen and knight are too powerful to stop.
23.Qe3 also wins. 23.Qe3 Rh8 24.Nge4 Qb4 25.Nd6 Kg8 26.Rxf7 Qxb2 27.d5 Qb6 28.Qxb6 Nxb6 29.dxe6 Bxe6 30.Rf6 Bf5 31.Nxf5 gxf5 32.Rxf5 Re8 33.Bf3 Nd7 34.Bd1 Kg7 35.Bxh5 Nxe5 36.Bxe8 Rxh4 37.Rxe5 Rxh3 38.Ne4 and we end up with this totally winning endgame for white:
click for larger view
|Oct-23-05|| ||Fezzik: If you find 23.Nf5 or 23.Nh5 you get no points unless you also saw 24.Bd5!!|
If you did see 24.Bd5, then you probably would have made that your first choice back on 23. We humans like the bizarre looking move more than computers do.
|Oct-23-05|| ||brainzugzwang: <Fezzik: I've never heard of Peter Richard Markland before.> Seems he was a hotshot young Brit player in the early 70s; old literature I've read seems to indicate he was thought of as a future superstar, but he just seemed to disappear by the end of the decade.|
|Oct-24-05|| ||Dionyseus: <fezzik> <We humans like the bizarre looking move more than computers do. >|
Well my Shredder 9.1 immediately saw 23.Bd5 as winning big. I find it interesting that <LIFE MASTER AJ>'s Fritz 8 was considering Qe3 first. Chess engines apparently have their own minds, hehe.
|Oct-26-05|| ||dhotts: What defense does Black have for 23.Nxh5+ gxh5 24.Rf3! ?|
|Oct-26-05|| ||patzer2: The puzzle solution 23. Bd5! is a strong clearance move, which prepares a winning attack on Black's weakened castled position. |
If 23... cxd5, then 24. Nxh5+!
click for larger view
24...gxh5 (24...Kg8 25. Qh6 ) 25. Qg2+ Kh6 26. Rf5
Ng7 27. Qxg7+ Kxg7 28. Rg5+ Kh8 29. Rhxh5# leads to a quick mate for White.
|Nov-05-05|| ||LIFE Master AJ: Markland looks like a pretty good player, of course to beat Hort is a fantastic accomplishment. |
Anyone know how he did in this tournament? (Is there a link ... with a cross-table?) Does anyone have any background info on this guy? Finally, does he play chess today?
Before asking all these questions ... I guess I should have looked (first) to see if he had his own page ...
|Nov-05-05|| ||LIFE Master AJ: To answer my own question ...
Peter Richard Markland
|Nov-05-05|| ||tamar: In fact, the only game Markland lost at Hastings was to Karpov, and that was settled more by Karpov's tenacity and practicality near the time control than the positions on the board Karpov vs P Markland, 1971|
CHO'D Alexander who was present at Hastings used it as an example in his Fischer-Spassky book of how even a very talented player meets ever greater resistance as he moves through the elite players.
|Nov-05-05|| ||WMD: The Karpov game was actually Hastings 1971-72, not the 1970-71 event I was referring to. Hastings is tradtionally played over the New Year.|
|Nov-05-05|| ||tamar: <WMD> Did you happen to witness either of those Hastings? Markland I see also lost to Korchnoi in the later one. Korchnoi vs P Markland, 1971|
|Nov-05-05|| ||LIFE Master AJ: <D>
<Well my Shredder 9.1 immediately saw 23.Bd5 as winning big. I find it interesting that <LIFE MASTER AJ>'s Fritz 8 was considering Qe3 first. Chess engines apparently have their own minds, hehe.>
Yes. Every engine CAN be different!
The reason why is a complex answer. Are you using the engine straight or under CB, (?) my testing indicates a slight difference in the results. Speed of the processor, the amount of RAM, how large the hash-tables are, and many other factors will affect this type of performance.
The only way to insure identical results is to install the same program on two identical machines and then configure the engines exactly the same. (default settings?) Then you would probably get the same result.
Some programs are different. Shredder is slightly different than Fritz. Junior is more tactically aggressive than many other programs, and will sac on positional considerations as well. Hiarcs is more positional and will also play endings exceptionally well. ChessMaster 10th Edition is extremely strong, perhaps its only weakness is to sac too much material. (In limited tests, it lost a few games to Fritz 8.0 because of this. However, due to the fact that at least 100 test games were not played, this might be an isolated phenomenon and not a trend - only more testing would yield definite results.)
Is this of any help?
|Mar-29-09|| ||WhiteRook48: I Mark this Land, and will Hort you if you try to win!|
|Feb-18-13|| ||Shams: Bump! No game this awesome should go unkibitzed for half a decade.|
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