< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·
|Dec-16-10|| ||rilkefan: ... and even when I'm right I'm late.|
|Dec-16-10|| ||gmalino: Seems to be very easy, too easy for thursday, esp. after the relatively hard puzzles on monday and thuesday....
Black is sigificantly down in material, so a draw would be enough.
The white Queen is almost trapped, so trying:
59. .... Rxh4
60. Kxh4 Bd4
trapping the Queen forever!
As white can try to get the d-pawn, black has to play Ke7 at sometime and for the reast of the day moves his Bishop on the a1-h8-diagonal.
|Dec-16-10|| ||Jamboree: I saw the game drawing line almost immediately - -Rxh4, Bd4, Ke7, and white has no way to break out. That part took 30 seconds at most.|
But am I the only one to waste any time on trying to bust that line 15 moves in the future? I started worrying about White moving his K to c6, and then if black absent-mindedly shuffled his B to a1 on one of his back-and-forth moves, white can try a desperado trick: 1. Qxf8+ Kxf8 2. Kxd6 Ke8 3. Ke6 Bc3 4. d6 Ba5 5. Kf6 and white then mops up black's last two pawns -- but even so, I think black can still hold a draw with K+2P vs. K+B.
I had to work out that final detail to convince myself that Rxh4 back at the beginning was truly a draw! Did anyone else go this far in analysis?
|Dec-16-10|| ||sandormatyas: How about 59. ... Bd4! with the threat of Rh8 and the queen is trapped?|
|Dec-16-10|| ||mike1: 59... Bd4 60. Nxg6 1:0|
|Dec-16-10|| ||gofer: This looks like a queen trap. The queen is blocked in, but is hoping to escape via g6 and then f5, d6 or h5 at which point black is in trouble.
But black has one move before white can start his escape plans by playing Nxg6, so what to do? Well Bd4 doesn't seem to work!|
59 ... Bd4 60 Nxg6 Rf7 61 Nxf7 Rxf7 62 Qe6+ winning!
So what other way can black stop Nxg6? There is one! But it is playing for a draw! So lets look at the situation and
see if black is okay with a draw! Well on a point count (Q+N v R+B+N) white is up 4 points! So perhaps a draw is as
good as its going to get!
<59 ... Rxh4>
60 Kxh4 Bd4 seems to be a draw. Pd6 can be protected by playing Ke7 at any point, so at some point we get to the following...
click for larger view
with white to play and white plays Qxf8+ Kxf8 Kxd6, but this seems to be losing for white, so I think white will accept the draw!
<60 Qg7! ...>
Now this is far more interesting, white accepts the loss of the Knight and gets the queen out of jail. But is there anyway white can win from
here? Now this is way beyond a Thursday level puzzle! So lets assume that
we are not meant to look at this in any great detail. Time to check...
|Dec-16-10|| ||gofer: <JohnBoy:> Ke7 protects Pd6 and has to be played.|
<Jamboree> Yep I looked at it and felt there is no way white can force a win, he can only force a loss! Crafty EGT shows just how quickly white loses...
1 Qxf8+ Kxf8
2 Kxd6 ...
<2 ... Kf7!>
White has no way to reach Pg6 or protect Pf4 so must move to c6, c7 or d7 at which point Pf4 and Pg5 are lost!
|Dec-16-10|| ||agb2002: Black has a rook and bishop for a queen.
White threatens 60.Nxg6 Rf7 61.Nxf8 Rxf8 62.Qe6+ Kd8 63.g6 Bd4 64.Qxd6+ Ke8 65.Qe6+ Kd8 66.d6 and 60.Nxf5 gxf5 61.g6 Rh1 62.g7 Rg1+ 63.Kh2 Rxg7
64.Qxg7 winning in both cases.
Therefore, eliminate the white knight with 59... Bf2+
A) 60.Kxf2 Rxh4
A.1) 61.Ke(f,g)3 62.Rh7 and the white queen is trapped. Black only needs to move ... Ke7(8) to assure the draw.
A.2) 61.Qg7 Rxf4+
A.2.a) 62.Ke3 Re4+ 63.Kd3 Re5 64.Kc4 f4 65.Qf6 Rf5 66.Qxd6 f3 67.Qb8+ Kf7 68.Qa7+ Kg8 69.Qf2 Rf7 and Black is probably better.
A.2.b) 62.Kg3 Rg4+ 63.Kf3 Rxg5 64.Qf6 Rh5 65.Qxd6 Rh7 and Black only needs to move the rook along Black's second rank.
B) 60.Kf3 Bxh5 and probably only Black can win.
The alternative 59... Rxh5 60.Kxh4 looks risky because the white king can use the light squares to invade Black's queen side.
Finally, the attempt to trap the white queen with 59... Bd4, threatening 60... Rh8, fails because of 60.Nxg6 (60.Nxf5 gxf5 (60... Bc3 61.Nxd6+ Ke7 62.Nc8+ Ke8 63.d6 + -; 60... Rh8 61.Ng7+ Bxg7 62.Qxg7 Rh7 63.Qf6 Rd7 64.Kf3 Rd8 =) 61.g6 Rg7 62.Qh8 Rxg6+ and 63... Bxh8) Rf7 61.Nxf8 Rg7 (61... Rxf8 62.Qe6+ as in the first line of this post) 62.Qe6+ Kxf8 63.Qxd6, etc.
|Dec-16-10|| ||agb2002: Ironically, I mention Bd4 immediately after my comment on 59... Rxh5.
|Dec-16-10|| ||Chesschatology: I was looking for a fortress for the Black King, and I missed the prison for the White Queen.|
|Dec-16-10|| ||gmalino: <gofer> Your absolutely right, white should try 60. Qg7 and play for the point! That's why it's a thursday puzzle I guess. With his unconnected pieces and the rook hanging, it should be hard for black not to loose more pieces or at least pawns.|
|Dec-16-10|| ||Chesschatology: "gmalino: <gofer> Your absolutely right, white should try 60. Qg7 and play for the point! That's why it's a thursday puzzle I guess. With his unconnected pieces and the rook hanging, it should be hard for black not to loose more pieces or at least pawns."|
I don't buy this. After Qg7 White has a material disadvantage, and after 60... Rh7 Black is solid, and can consolidate, tuck his king away, and try to gang up on the pawns. After Rxh4+! White should take the draw.
|Dec-16-10|| ||whiteshark: ♘+♗ trapped/stalemated the ♕. Cuuuute. :D|
|Dec-16-10|| ||capanegra: Stalemate to the Queen... one of the most original endings I've seen lately. Thanks for sharing.|
|Dec-16-10|| ||TheaN: Thursday 16 December
Material: White up, ♕ vs ♖+♗
Candidates: Rxh4... Bd4, wait a minute... <[Rxh4]>!
This is an awkward puzzle. In the starting position, Black's position looks more than shaky. In any perfect world Black can just watch the White onslaught: Ree ought to finish this up with 60.Nxg6 and whatever follows. However, Ree is not in a perfect world and Black is to move and has a swindle. Hort takes this opportunity with a rare fortress; one with a stalled queen!
<59....Rxh4!> originally, one might look at this move for some mate pattern but a bishop only with some supporting pawns does not suffice for checkmate. Then, the lightning strikes, and Black's world turns bright!
<60.Kxh4> making this move and seeing Black's intention, White already accepts the draw playing this. On the contrary, though, after <60.Qg7 Rh7 <>> White's only hope is a salvaged draw and White is better off playing the capture and let Black show that he understands the position.
<60....Bd4> of course, the intermezzo move related to the mentioned mating pattern is 60....Bf2† 61.Kh3 Bd4, which does not differ.
<61.Kg3 Ke7 62.Kf3 Ba1 1/2> and the idea is clear: the White Queen is trapped (!), the kingside is closed off for the White King and the queenside is an untakable bastion. If White makes the walk to c6...
<(...) 67.Kc6 Bb2-d4> ...White would only have one winning move which is taking at least one piece for the Queen (so not Qe6† etc) and the d-pawn:
<68.Qxf8† Kxf8 69.Kxd6> tricky? Not really. One obvious way to win is:
<69....Kf7 70.Kc7> Kc6 makes no real difference.
<70....Bc1-e3 71.d6 Bxf4 72.Kd7 Bxd6 > with a win for Black. Time to check.
|Dec-16-10|| ||knight knight: Move 59, Black to play, rook and bishop for queen. White threatens 60. Nxg6.|
I see a cute drawing move, 59...Rxh4 60. Kxh4 Bd4 stalemating the queen and creating a fortress-like position. Or 59...Rxh4 60. Qg7 Rh7 61. Qb2, maybe black could even try for a win in this case.
But is it black to play and win? Perhaps 59...Bf2+ 60. Kxf2 Rxh4 61. Qg7 Rxf4+ 62. Ke3 Rg4 63. Qf6 looks unclear, but white could instead play 61. Kg3, after which black's best reply is probably 61...Rh7, another fortress.
Well, I can't see a winning move, time to see what happened...
|Dec-16-10|| ||Marmot PFL: i didn't really look at 59...Rxh4, having decided that 59...Bf2+ 60 Kxf2 Rxh4 61 Ke3 Rh7 would draw. Hort's line trapping the queen is simpler though.|
|Dec-16-10|| ||Marmot PFL: If 59...Bf2+ 60 Kxf2 Rxh4 61 Ke3 Rh7 the problem is that either d6 falls soon or the queen escapes. The rook can't trap the queen and also prevent the WK from reaching c6. Black meantime can win f4, but still looks lost. probably both players saw this but Hort also found the drawing line in the game.|
|Dec-16-10|| ||Patriot: 60.Nxg6 is the threat so it must be dealt with in some way. I really wanted to play 59...Bd4 to threaten 60...Rh8 but 60.Nxg6 stops this. 59...Rxh4 then became interesting but I missed the Bd4 idea to trap the queen. I was thinking 59...Bf2+ 60.Kxf2 Rxh4 61.Qg7 Rh7 and black can play 62...Rd7 to set up a barracade. But I guess the white king can march into c6 and follow-up with Qxf8, using the "overloaded piece" theme, followed by Kxd7 and winning.|
This doesn't exactly fit a "trapped piece" theme, does it? Usually trapped pieces are meant to be taken. This is more like an "imprisoned piece" theme, if there is such a thing.
|Dec-16-10|| ||M.Hassan: "Medium" Black to play 59.....?
White has a Queen for a Rook and a Bishop.
While White Queen has pinned the Black knight, herself is imprisoned on g8 and can not move anywhere without being captured. The only danger for Black is if the White Knight is allowed to capture g6 pawn, then White can make a severe attack against Black. Elimination of this Knight therefore should be Black's first aim and I think Black will continue the game by:
60.Kxf2 (forced, otherwise the Knight will be captured for nothing)
The game may continue long after this and I worked hard on this puzzle but don;t have time to show analyses at this moment.Either Black wins or it's a draw!!
Never thought that the Rook will take the Knight. Solution void
|Dec-16-10|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: Black has rook and bishop for a queen, a material disadvantage, but the WQ is trapped. Nonetheless, white threatens 60.Nxg6 Rf7 61.Nxf8 Rxf8 62.Qe6+ Kd8 63.g6 winning, so black should not set expectations too high. There are two reasonable-looking defenses to white's threat, 59... Rxh4 and 59... Bf2+. However, a closer examination of the 2nd candidate reveals a serious flaw: 59... Bf2+ 60.Kxf2 Rxh4 61.Ke3! and black must either allow the queen's escape with 62.Qg7 or he must play 61... Rh7, allowing the maneuver K-d3-c4-b5-c6-(...Ke7)-c7! forcing zugswang! A king move loses the black d-pawn or a rook move allows escape of the white queen via h8 or g7. Therefore, black must play it safe with |
59... Rxh4! 60.Kxh4 Bd4
Now it's a clear draw, with neither side able to make progress. A white king march to c6 is met by ....Ke7 and white can't force zugswang because the bishop always has safe moves on the h8-diagonal, keeping the queen trapped.
|Dec-16-10|| ||kevin86: Black sac-ed the exchange to trap the queen. As there is no way to capture the queen,the game does end in a standoff.|
|Dec-16-10|| ||tacticalmonster: < CHESSTTCAMPS > See my previous posts. After Kc6, Black still has a draw.|
|Dec-16-10|| ||doubledrooks: Black draws by keeping the white queen confined, and making the white king a non-threat, with: 59...Rxh4 60. Kxh4 Bd4 (trapping, but not winning the queen) 61. K moves Ke7, and the bishop just moves along the a1-h8 diagonal.|
|Dec-16-10|| ||Domdaniel: I completely failed to see this, even after looking at ...Rxh4. I thought of fortresses and 'stalemating' the Queen, but just didn't see that the two minor pieces could do it.|
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