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David Janowski vs Edward Tennenwurzel
Rice Memorial (1916), New York, NY USA, rd 1, Jan-17
Queen's Gambit Declined: Orthodox Defense. Botvinnik Variation (D60)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Sep-04-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  jith1207: Let's be honest, it's Monday. The first thing we all checked was a queen sac. The second thing we all tried was to make Nf5 royal check work.

By the time, we were tired of not getting both and the moment we got one working mate-in-two, we stopped because....

After all, It's Monday.

Sep-04-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Willem Wallekers: Yesterday we had the yearly market in our street. That didn't feel like a sunday.
Today doesn't feel like a monday.
Sep-04-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: <57.Bg5+> and mates next move

*Didn't notice 57.Ng4+

<stst> On your comment: <yeah, correct but incomplete. As a kblitzer and a trainer for self, should be able to give complete solution. IN this case, two possible, equally quick solutions. Be patient next time, try harder to see it all !!> This is your philosophy, which I do not agree with. I was trained that once you find a winning line, stop calculating. After all, once you have found a winning continuation there's no point in searching further since you are winning.

One can explore other moves or branches in post-game analysis: Don't waste time and energy exploring additional lines during a game: Time and energy are too precious to waste during a game

*****

Sep-04-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  jith1207: Agree with both philosophies, but I guess analysing all moves could be possible in early week puzzles and probably the gist of the earlier post by <stst>.

Of course, one will have to be so great at calculation and visualisation in order to analyse all the winning moves with the time available OTB. However, I have come to realize, to my own dismay, that one has to analyse all the winning moves the opponent has, in order to not lose.

Sep-04-17  zb2cr: I went for 57. Bg5+.
Sep-04-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Willber G: <stst: yeah, correct but incomplete.

As a kblitzer and a trainer for self, should be able to give complete solution. IN this case, two possible, equally quick solutions.

Be patient next time, try harder to see it all !!>

Nah, if you see a mate in two, play it, shake hands, and make your way to the bar.

Sep-04-17  Prosperus: I found 57. Ng4+! hxg4 58. Rh1#; 57. ... Kh7 58. Qg8#
Sep-04-17  Iwer Sonsch: No queen sac today. Just 57.Bg5+! with mate in two.
Sep-04-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  EdC: How does white continue after 54...Kg7
Sep-04-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: <EdC: How does white continue after 54...Kg7?>

55. Qxf8+ looks pretty painful. Then one line might be: 55...Kh7 56. Bg8+ Kh8 57. Bf7+ Kh7 58. Qg8+ Kh6 59. Qxg6#

Sep-04-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  malt: <EdC>
55.Q:f8+ Kh7 56.Bg8+ Kh8 57.Bf7+ Kh7
58.Qg8+ Kh6 59.Q:g6#
Sep-04-17  tjshann: I saw the knight mate and stopped looking. The bishop move is blunter and arguably less "elegant", but no less effective. Hope this is a one-off. Hard enough to find one solution!
Sep-04-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen: Pad mr g5s gunner vent von guv ply g4s gruel von luv bud 1 ave either vis hint rink ave pad mr luv reg funs fengshui bints ink ok von guv i que went churchmen eves vow chump jowly chutz it's vast ion cat paws it's vast nation cast pewtery catnips yow vis canopy wist yin canto copays twin vams caw pointy vims twains copy yawns optic vis awn copyist vide yawn topics vim aw copy twin g5s greens vent eve g4s gruel von guv bud 1 ave pad apply vim dip vis dim my reg green vent get fengshui fest fuss vis bints nibs tin blink ink q wo jowly lovely vim chutz it's vast ion cat paws it ok von guv green venthug 57.Bg5+ vet he gumegg bud 1 ave green venthug 57.Ng4+ vet het gruel von guv bud 1 ave hue bubble beeb hubble hub huvs g5s greens vent greece urns vest gruffs von guvs gruels luv gob glock god gog jog moggy goe von guv i vent z it was ok von guv have won guppy yin yang gourd ghost ghoul got govern gowrot hue hug glug gulch hung get hent g4s green vent grubs von guv i guff glugs gulls grunt von guv guess gummy bog cog dog fog hog log pogo roger that over ghost ghoul govern glug hud gulch dog dengue fever hug hung duff deffy dug feud two ways bud jet jut djs etc dutch treat vent debt tend jud duet remember burly fess fuss vest fend duff deffy guff fengshui geld dug cud duck desk bud bend dux it was ok von guv vis ums do job eve ah get roger it was ok vow ave pad g4s guffs win duo gets g5s gumegg;
Sep-04-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: I don't know whatever happened to the old "chess puzzle rules" but I believe I recall that a "valid" puzzle never had two possible solutions and the first move was never a check, but of course that applies to "classic puzzles", not combinations extracted from games. Does anybody know of any reference works about the "principles of classic chess puzzles"?
Sep-04-17  ucbu: I haven't come to chessgames for awhile and it seems that <chrisowen> now speak in Zoombie or High Valyrian :P

I see 1. Ng5+ hxg5 2. Rh1# (1. ... Kh7 2. Qg8#) and stop calculating.

Sep-04-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Breunor: I usually think of Janowski as a tactics guy; some patient positional play though before the fireworks at the end!
Sep-04-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: <ChessHigherCat> A chess "problem" is generally considered to be cooked if it has more than one solution. More about problems here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess...

CG games of the day or positions of the day aren't chess problems as such. They belong to the wider group of chess puzzles where almost anything goes. There can be more than one winning move or sometimes no winning moves at all. The challenge is simply to find the best move.

Sep-04-17  lzromeu: Mate in 2, by 2 ways. OK. Itīs monday.
Do you want philosophies???
How about:
sac the bishop or sac the knight???
Thatīs the question.
How computer does???
Sep-04-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  WorstPlayerEver: Obviously Bg5 is more subtle than Ng4. Ng4 isn't subtle at all.
Sep-04-17  lzromeu: <Richard Taylor:> I like this line of thinking.
Of course to all of us, chess is not a punishment, then, @#$% the bar. Go to study solutions. Agree about the aesthetic of knight move, that's my choice, my first solution, and I stop here. However the B sac is more simple, a machine move, certainly.
Sep-04-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: <lzromeu: <Richard Taylor:> I like this line of thinking. Of course to all of us, chess is not a punishment, then, X the bar. Go to study solutions. Agree about the aesthetic of knight move, that's my choice, my first solution, and I stop here. However the B sac is more simple, a machine move, certainly.>

Maybe don't swear ("cuss") on here, the system here doesn't like it and leaves "ats" and dollar signs etc....

Otherwise I agree in gen. with what you say. And I take your comment as a compliment. I was ranting on a bit. I liked the problem as it was relatively easy...

Of course a lot of my comments are slightly satirical. Of course it doesn't matter whether anyone solved it or which way or how much they saw...after all a lot of us gave up because they thought it was Monday, but here in Kiwiland (Aotearoa) it was Sunday! Or it was part Sunday then part Monday...

So for me it was a Sunday/Monday puzzle...

Sep-04-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: <Breunor: I usually think of Janowski as a tactics guy; some patient positional play though before the fireworks at the end!>

Lasker knew that Janowski disliked endings so he steered for them in their match and won most games. Janowski said to the effect that if it wasn't a win in the middle game he wasn't interested. Probably a bit apocryphal but it is a good story...

Sep-04-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen: <ucbu> I dug down it is ok da vow eh over tuc ban vim bet jobs vis mac rims ha would churchmen hmm 1 el met and cover hi viz g4s green vent g5s gruffs von guv i block cuff box one;
Sep-04-17  leRevenant: < jith1207: Let's be honest, it's Monday. The first thing we all checked was a queen sac. The second thing we all tried was to make Nf5 royal check work. By the time, we were tired of not getting both and the moment we got one working mate-in-two, we stopped because....

After all, It's Monday.>
i like it

Sep-04-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: <Once: A chess "problem" is generally considered to be cooked if it has more than one solution. More about problems here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess...

Thanks for the link. There are some cases where puzzles of the enigma and in-game (two anagrams) types can overlap, such as O Bernstein vs Smyslov, 1946

61...Black to move.

That's like a composed puzzle in terms of the difficulty and shock value but it still doesn't meet the strict criteria because the first move isn't supposed to be a check or obvious. It could be a spoiler, though, since almost everybody would immediately play Rh2+ and get stalemated.

"62. white to play and draw" would be a valid composed puzzle, but it's very short.

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