< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Sep-06-06|| ||euripides: 'quod erat demonstratum' is good Latin. It means something like 'I deserve the Fields medal, but someone else got there first'.|
|Sep-06-06|| ||keypusher: Thanks, <EmperorAtahualpa>, I didn't know that. As for the rest, I am afraid no quod was ever demonstrandumed by appearing in a Chernev book, no matter how many times said quod was copied by later slipshods.|
|Sep-06-06|| ||Pawn and Two: The original source of the "his meat" comment appears to be a remark made by J. du Mont.|
On p. 17 of Golombek's book "Capblanca'a 100 Best Games of Chess, J. du Mont writes: <"I remember his winning a brilliant game from Dr. Vidmar in London, 1922, and laughingly patting the loser on the back, saying: "He always give [sic] me the chance of a brillancy: he is my meat" - this accompanied by such a charming and good-natured smile that everyone, including Dr. Vidmar, had the impression that he had bestowed the finest compliment on his opponent. Who else could make such a remark to his adversary and convey the feeling of the utmost friendliness?">
In his book, "Capablanca", Edward Winter writes: <"This story cannot be correct, as before London, 1922, Capablanca and Vidmar had met only once, drawing in 20 moves.">
The game Winter was referring to was Vidmar - Capablanca, San Sebastian, 1911, a 20 move draw played in the final round of the tournament.
|Sep-06-06|| ||paladin at large: <Pawn and Two> Thanks for clearing this up. Capablanca was known for his affable and upbeat style when at a tournament, often moving around and chatting casually with others. It would be interesting to know if Vidmar ever wrote about the matter.|
|Sep-06-06|| ||slomarko: <It was made humorously, but it did seem that Vidmar was fairly easy for Capa, but then most people back then were.> capa has a negative record against rubinstein and spielmann.|
|Sep-06-06|| ||keypusher: <slomarko> No, even against both. He has negative scores against a few opponents from the 30s -- Keres and Fine, I think, from a small number of games. |
|Sep-06-06|| ||chancho: <He has negative scores against a few opponents from the 30s -- Keres and Fine,> |
Only Keres has a true plus score on Capa. (the game Fine won was from a simul)
|Sep-06-06|| ||slomarko: no its not even its negative. at least in tournament play.|
|Sep-06-06|| ||Maatalkko: According to the Fritz8 database, which contains all tournament games as far as I know, Capablanca only has a -1 record against Keres, Verlinsky, and Illyin Zhenevsky. He played Keres 6 times (2.5/6), and lost his only games against Verlinsky and Illyin Zhenevsky.|
|Sep-06-06|| ||Maatalkko: He has even records against Botvinnik, Fine, Reshevsky, Spielmann, Lilienthal, and Rubinstein. Everyone else he has played for 5+ games he beats, including Alekhine. After losing to Alekhine in the Wch, they only played three times with an even result.|
|Sep-06-06|| ||euripides: I think he lost his only game against Sultan Khan.|
|Sep-06-06|| ||slomarko: hasnt he lost twice to rubinstein?
|Sep-06-06|| ||chancho: <slomanko> No. And <Euripedes> is right. (he lost to Sultan Khan)|
|Sep-06-06|| ||LIFE Master AJ: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q.E.D.
|Sep-06-06|| ||slomarko: tnx god he didnt lost to Genghis Khan.|
|Sep-06-06|| ||LIFE Master AJ: You mean Sultan Khan?
If you are interested in who played who, or who has a plus score against what opponents ...
the book to have is "LIFE MAPS" (of the great chess masters) by Nathan Divinsky.
|Sep-06-06|| ||TheoreticalNovelty: Heh, my math lecturer always uses that Q.E.D on the board. Now I finally know what he means :)|
<slomanko> There are 8 Rubinstein-Capa games in this database. They both won one each and the other 6 were drawn
|Sep-06-06|| ||LIFE Master AJ: <TN> Yeah, but this db is FAR from being complete! |
ChessBase is pretty accurate though ...
|Sep-06-06|| ||chancho: In Rogelio Capparo's book: "The Games of Jose Raul Capablanca." Capa and Rubinstein each won a game and they drew the rest. All those games are in this database.|
|Sep-07-06|| ||LIFE Master AJ: I did a search between Capa and Rubinstein, (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches...); and it is immediately followed by an asterisk, and the statement that the record given is based on the games in the database, "which may not be complete."|
The definitive source would be Divinsky's aforementioned book. He cites nine games having been played; Capa wins one, Rubinstein the other, and they had seven draws.
|Sep-07-06|| ||LIFE Master AJ: However - versus Vidmar - Divinsky shows that nine games were also played by Vidmar vs. Capa. Capa won three, had six draws, and ZERO losses.|
|Sep-07-06|| ||chancho: <AJ: He (Divinsky) cites nine games having been played; Capa wins one, Rubinstein the other, and they had seven draws.>|
<AJ: However - versus Vidmar - Divinsky shows that nine games were also played by Vidmar vs. Capa. Capa won three, had six draws, and ZERO losses.>
If you count the total number of games in the CG.Com database, for Capablanca vs Rubinstein and Capablanca vs Vidmar, you'll find they are identical to the totals you gave from Divinsky's book.
search "capablanca vs rubinstein"
search "capablanca vs vidmar"
It is true that the CG.Com database has some other games (by other players) unavailable, but as far as the above games, they are in the CG>Com database.
|Sep-07-06|| ||slomarko: then it must be true. i remember reading somewhere he had negative score against rubinstein and spielmann. can sb check spielmann?|
|Sep-07-06|| ||keypusher: <slomarko> I have a link to the cg.com Spielmann-Capa games in my post above. It's complete as far as decisive games go, although I wouldn't swear it has all the draws.|
|Sep-13-06|| ||LIFE Master AJ: I read the preface of the Divinsky book. One thing he did do was to count demonstration games ... and other battles that were not played under strict tournament conditions. |
I think this is wrong. Unless otherwise noted, I would only condier games played in serious tournaments and matches to be valid for the purposes of lifetime records.
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·