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Aron Nimzowitsch vs Rudolf Spielmann
"Hanging in Mid Aron" (game of the day Mar-10-2007)
Karlsbad (1929), Karlsbad CSR, rd 19, Aug-23
Van't Kruijs Opening: General (A00)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Mar-10-07  euripides: <al> I think it's cruder than that: if <70...Ka8> then 71.Kf7 and Black can't keep the rooks on without checkmate. If 70...Kc8 then 71.h7 and the pawn gets through.
Mar-10-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: I'm weak on endgames. How does white finish after 70...Ka8? I figure it's something like 71. Rd7 Re8+ 72. Kd6 Rh8 73. Kc6 (73. Kc7 Rc8+!) Rc8+ 74. Rc7. If now 74...Rxc7, then 75. bxc7 (75. Kxc7? stalemate).

If instead 74...Rh8, then 75. b7+ Ka7 (75...Kb8 76. Kb6, and the only way black can stop a7# is to trade ♖s) 76. Rc8 Rh6+ 77. Kd5 Rh5+ (77...Rb6? 78. Ra8#) 78. Ke6 Rh6+, etc., and the b-♙ promotes when black runs out of checks.

But there are probably easier ways to win. Does someone know?

Mar-10-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: <euripedes>: Thanks, that works. (I reposted several times, so your answer now precedes my question. I'll leave it up anyway.)
Mar-10-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <al wazir> -- euripides is right: if 70...Ka8, then 71.Kf7 followed by Re8 wins.

Keene's book on Nimzo also gives 70...Kc8 71.a7, and 70...Rf8 71.Kd7 followed by 72.Re8+

As for <bad temper> -- anyone who could think this is ugly... words almost fail me. You want ugly, folks, the world is full of mirrors.

Mar-10-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: A strange game. Even two rooks on the seventh rank couldn't get black a draw. By the time we get to R + 2P vs R-black is lost.
Mar-10-07  Dr.Lecter: I'm not sure I see the significance of this game, other than a nice endgame.
Mar-10-07  ALEXIN: In my opinion the example shown by Euripides is lost after 56.Rb1 Kb5 57.a5 and etc. Two pawns are too much...
Mar-11-07  BadTemper: domdaniel for some reason doesnt like me. twice this person has insulted me in reply to a post, without cause...

shame on you... i wonder why people stereotype chess players as non-people......

Mar-11-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: Dear, dear <BadTemper>...

(1) I don't remember the other time.

(2) Look again: I took care not to "insult" you; I didn't actually refer to "you" at all. The phrase "you want ugly" is a colloquial one, aimed at the world in general.

(3) I don't "not like you". We probably have different opinions on a few topics, eg Nimzo. And beauty.

(4) It's just possible -- and I say this as *your friend* -- that your name gives people the wrong idea? *Are* you in a bad temper, <BT>? May one ask why? Maybe you're all sweetness'n'light, really, but idiots like me misconstrue your true poetic nature?

(5) Sorry, we don't do shame.

Aug-14-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: In the long run <8... Bf5?> was decisively wrong.
Aug-14-07  ounos: What should have been played at move 8 then?
Aug-15-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: <ounos> The odds are that I did bite off more than I can chew. Let me check it...
Aug-15-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Marmot PFL: 5.Nb5 is a funny move. If black simply kicks it with a6 or ignores it and develops with Bc5 or Be7 what has white achieved? I guess Nimzovich understood Spielman's psychology which is why he played this way but against Capa or Alekhine such ideas usually failed. I lost once to a very strong postal player in this opening but he played 5.Nc3 and after Bc5 6.Nf5!? 0-0 7.Ng3 Re8 continued with a3 and Qc2 building up pressure on e4.
Aug-15-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Pawn and Two: In the Carlsbad 1929 tournament book, Nimzowitsch remarked regarding the move 18...Rhd8; "<Mechanical development". Nimzowitsch recommended instead; 18...Rg8 19.f3 Nd5 20.fxe4 Nxc3 21.dxc3 Rf8. He then stated that such discreet use of a rook, (18...Rg8), is not usual in a gambit, but very necessary when one wants to win first prizes.

A review by Fritz confirms that 18...Rg8 is indeed Black's best move. However, both moves give Black an almost equal evaluation.

Here are Fritz's evaluations for 18...Rg8 and 18...Rhd8:

(.10) (18 ply) 18...Rg8 19.f3 Nd5 20.Bd4 f5 21.Ra2 Rxb3 22.Bxa7 Kd7 23.Bd4 Ra8 24.Bxg7 Rbxa3.

(.24) (18 ply) 18...Rhd8 19.b4 Nd5 20.Bxg7 Rxd2 21..Rfd1 Rc2 22.Rdc1 Rd2 23.Bd4 Kb7 24.Kf1 h6.

Aug-15-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Pawn and Two: Fritz's evaluations at 19 ply, for 18..Rg8 and 18...Rhd8:

(.11) (19 ply) 18...Rg8 19.f3 Nd5 20.Bd4 f5 21.Ra2 Rxb3 22.Bxa7 Kd7 23.fxe4 fxe4 24.Bc5 Ke6.

(.30) (19 ply) 18...Rhd8 19.f3 Nd5 20.Bxg7 f5 21.Bd4 Rxd2 22.Bxa7 Rd3 23.fxe4 fxe4 24.Rf7 Kb7 25.Bc5.

Aug-15-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: <Pawn and Two: <In the Carlsbad 1929 tournament book, Nimzowitsch remarked regarding the move 18...Rhd8; <Mechanical development>>> followed by a figurative and very pejorative <aber so spielt man eben, wenn man jahrelang Gambit getrommelt hat!>
May-27-11  meppi: the opening is a reversed rubenstein-nimzovitch variation in scillian defence, see move 3. good play by nimzo a chess elder who i learn many tricks from!
Nov-04-11  Ulhumbrus: <whiteshark: <Pawn and Two: <In the Carlsbad 1929 tournament book, Nimzowitsch remarked regarding the move 18...Rhd8; <Mechanical development>>> followed by a figurative and very pejorative <aber so spielt man eben, wenn man jahrelang Gambit getrommelt hat!>> The google German to English translator gives the following result <But then we just play, if one has drummed for years Gambit!>
Nov-04-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  Calli: Might translate as "Spielmann, who for years has banged the drum for gambits, plays mechanically here."
Nov-04-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: <Ulhumbrus> maybe <but so does one simply play, if one has drummed the gambit for years>?
Nov-04-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  Calli: <whiteshark> "drummed the gambit" is a bit hard to understand, I think. It was an unnecessary shot by Nimzo, in any case.
Nov-05-11  Ulhumbrus: <whiteshark> How about <However people play in this way if they have played gambits for years>. The word "drummed" may however be intended to convey a meaning which the verb "played" does not express adequately. Does it have something to do with playing some tune or being conditioned to something or plugging it or something? Perhaps a German expert can help us.
Nov-05-11  psmith: <Ulhumbrus> I sense an untranslatable pun in Nimzo's comment ("spielt man" --> "Spielmann").
Nov-05-11  psmith: "Trommeln" can mean something like pound or bang or beat as well as drum. And "eben" can mean "just."

I suggest "but that's just how you'll play, if you pound away at gambits for years."

Nov-05-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  Calli: <psmith> Gambits require imagination so it's illogical to say you play mechanical if you like gambits. He chides Spielmann, someone who recommends gambits, for not playing with more flair.
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