< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·
|Jul-06-12|| ||SamAtoms1980: Yep, 87.d8=N+ Ka7 88.Rc7+ Kb8 was as far as I made it.|
|Jul-06-12|| ||Jimfromprovidence: Generally speaking, I saw 87 d8N 88 Ka7 Rc7+ but I had no idea that this is the only chance to win, assuming it is the only way.|
Specifically, I really liked 89 Rd7, below, after 88...Kb8.
click for larger view
This forces black to check on b1 instead of d1.
It also puts the rook in position to interpose if necessary when black checks on the e through h files. This situation arose after 97 Kc4, below. if 97...Qe4+ had followed, white plays 98 Rd4 . Black moved his king instead.
click for larger view
I also liked the finishing position below
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This reduces to the below position where white has the "right" bishop to promote his pawn.
click for larger view
|Jul-06-12|| ||bachbeet: I saw the need for N promotion but surely didn't see all the remaining moves. I'll take partial credit.|
|Jul-06-12|| ||Justanotherpawn: Why not 87 .....K-B8?
White has 88 Kt-C6 ch and then after 88....K-A8 he is out of checks and Black gets the perpetual check?
|Jul-06-12|| ||gofer: I found the under-promotion, but that wasn't hard considering this week is "under-promotion week". |
I didn't find <89 Rd7>.
Now that would have been a full point! It shows a clear advantage for white. Black is struggling from then on. The king is cornered, white's king is free and white's pieces are all protecting each other...
|Jul-06-12|| ||Richard Taylor: There are some great games by Karpov in his book "Chess at the Top". I coincidentally earlier today) just played over great game where he beat Hubner with an attack worthy of Tal. He beats Tal in another game. And there are a number of other beautiful games.|
Here White only winning way seemed to be to make a knight+ to avoid perpetual (which was safe enough as Black could really only draw at most.
|Jul-06-12|| ||gofer: <Justanotherpawn:>
Black must avoid losing Pa5 so easily as it give the white king the
extra escape square he is looking for!
<87 d8=N+ Kb8 88 Nc6+ K anywhere 89 Nxa5 >
|Jul-06-12|| ||Oxspawn: Well I guess it must be d8=N+ (now where did that idea come from?) but after that you are on your own. I go back to my newspaper and coffee.|
|Jul-06-12|| ||LongBoards4Josh: One of the most fun games I've seen in a while.|
|Jul-06-12|| ||Oxspawn: Well, I played through the game after knighting the pawn, and came to a profound conclusion: Karpov and Timman - bl--dy hell (not a profanity but a mark of respect!) From where did Karpov get a reputation for robotic play? Must have been politics.|
|Jul-06-12|| ||SimonWebbsTiger: Underpromotion is the theme of week so picking up the knight with check (esp. since black has perpetual) suggests itself at once. Nice finish by Tolya.|
|Jul-06-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: Most excellent! A WC Karpov puzzle!
This puzzle is a tough one - I'm going to settle on the following:
A) 87...Kb6 88. Rc6+ Ka7 89. Ra6+ Kb8 90. Nc6+ and depending on where Black's K moves, White can go in for either 91. Nxa5 or 91. Rxa5 with advantage.
B) 87...Kb8 88. Nc6+ any 89. Nxa5 Qb1+ 90. Ka3 Qa1+ 91. Kb4 and White has the advantage because he is up material, his K has access to both the b4 and c5 squares, and his N can move to b3 to defend against ...Qb1+ if need be.
C) 87...Ka7 88. Rc7+ Kb8 (88...Kb6 89. Rc6+! Ka7 90. Ra6+ Kb8 91. Nc6+ is the same as line 'A' where White has the advantage) 89. Rd7 and now White has the advantage because he has limited the Black K to a few squares along his back rank, his own K has excellent maneuverability, all his pieces are protected, and a potential mating attack may materialize.
D) 87...Ka8 88. Rc8+ Ka7 89. Rc7+ Kb8 (89...Kb6 90. Rc6+! Ka7 91. Ra6+ Kb8 92. Nc6+ is the same as line 'A' where White has the advantage) 90. Rd7 is the exact same position as the main variation of line 'C' where White has the advantage.
|Jul-06-12|| ||David2009: Karpov vs Timman, 1986 White 88?|
Here's the position one move after the N promotion
click for larger view
(Karpov vs Timman 1986 88?)
with an interactive link to play White against Crafty End Game Trainer: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...
Can you pilot the white side to victory without silicon help?
I was feeling lazy and perhaps gave up the search too soon.
|Jul-06-12|| ||scormus: I've decided the task this week is not really to get the entire winning sequence, but to get the right promotion. That way I've got a chance of 7/7 for the week. This is a tough puzzle otherwise, with 4 alternatives for B on the just first move after d8=N+ and a tricky strategy for W to find after that. But I didn't even pick the same as 87 move as Timman.|
|Jul-06-12|| ||Patriot: 87.d8=N+ -- The rest, I have no idea!|
|Jul-06-12|| ||Castleinthesky: The move itself was easy, because, if white promoted to anything but a knight, the game would have been a draw by perpetual check. Consequently, it was an easy one for a Friday.|
|Jul-06-12|| ||Crispy Seagull: Yup, like others, I say underpromote to a knight and figure it out from there. Being technically up material and having the initiative should just work itself out ;)|
|Jul-06-12|| ||kevin86: Just think:this win would be impossible if white had a black square bishop!|
|Jul-06-12|| ||sfm: Absolutely fabulous endgame, all the way. 77.Rxg7!! (whatever Fritz would say) is played with an iron-will to win.|
|Jul-06-12|| ||gambler: I thought this puzzle was rather easy, especially for a friday one. What is the scoop?|
Looking at the position you know, white is clearly playing for a win here and black merely wants to get away with it with continuous checks. It is obvious that, as long as the King has no proper flight square, there is nothing white can do about Queen checks. So the Queen promotion is no option.
The single one piece which is prohibiting the King from escaping is his rook, so in the course of events, the rook has to move and the white King will eventually get out of these nasty checks. however, if one would simply play the natural looking Rc8, The queen will eventually deliver continuous checks, because there is not really a way the king can hide. The king would like to find a cozy spot behind its own pieces, but with Rc8, there is no way, because the black king stops any infiltration and the king has to play on the open e-h files. If there was some safe spot, I cannot find it.
So what to do? Underpromote (yeah, theme of the weak).
this comes with tempo, not only adding another piece to the attack, but also adding another piece to the defense as well. It does not really matter in detail, where the king goes. with 3 attacking pieces and the king in the corner, you should not have any problems to coordinate your pieces. The key element once again is involving your rook. Once this is done, there will alway be a hiding place for the king behind the rook+knight. Just enough to stop a continuous check and win the game.
I do not think that this is really a "calculate it all out"-type of position. Of course, the first 4-6 moves need to be calculated, so you do not run into a draw or lose a piece. But once you figure that the underpromotion is the only way to go, you just do it and use your majority to not only attack the king, but also provide king safety.
I think this is rather logical so I did not think this was too difficult. If someone calculated every variation through, I do not know if I should admire you or feel sorry. I think this is more a "prove of principle" position.
Just for fun, with these ideas in mind, I played the position against my computer and had little problems beating it.
|Jul-06-12|| ||Sneaky: <gambler: I thought this puzzle was rather easy, especially for a friday one. What is the scoop?> It's not so much a question of seeing the first move but rather of the technique that follows. If I had White I'm sure I would have played c8=N+ and then proceeded to botch it all up.|
|Jul-06-12|| ||Patriot: <gambler> Nicely put! The only thing a player would have to decide is whether black can win a piece or something. If not, then white needs to play for a win and under-promote to a knight. Otherwise, white can promote to a queen and allow the draw to take place.|
<If someone calculated every variation through, I do not know if I should admire you or feel sorry. I think this is more a "prove of principle" position.> I understand your point completely. During a game you only need to find the best move within a reasonable time--not calculate everything out like a machine. I always felt that a player needs to practice this logic (even for puzzles) in order to become better analysts OTB. Otherwise, you're becoming a better puzzle analyst, not a better player. But this isn't completely true. Some choose to analyze in more detail to improve their visualization or to learn more about positions in general. There are kibitzer's on this site that usually go into a lot of detail. I tend to admire their abilities. But I do think that can be harmful to their game unless they can overcome the tendency to over-calculate OTB.
<Just for fun, with these ideas in mind, I played the position against my computer and had little problems beating it.> Good job!!
|Jul-06-12|| ||chrisowen: Kin dutifuls in knightd8 gastronomic height in ka7 binding rookc7+ |
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|Jul-06-12|| ||James D Flynn: Black threatens Qb1+ with perpetual check., there is no king escape squares with the White pieces in their present positions , therefore a rook move is needed to provide the c4 square for his king. In addition Black threatens to play Qd1+ and Qxd8 if White promotes his d7 pawn to B or N without a check. Candidates Rc8, Rc6, Nd8+.
87.Rc8(the most logical Providing an escape square for his K and threatening to queen on d8) Qb1+ 88.Kc4 Qe4+ 89.Kc5 Qe3+ 90.Kd6 Qh6+ and White cannot avoid the perpetual.
87.Rc6 Qb8+ 88.Kc4 Qe4+ 89.Kc5 Qe3+ 89.Kd6 Qh6+ and again Black has a perpetual.
Hence Nd8+ is the only move to avoid a perpetual by providing escape squares for the K via b4 and a5.
87.Nd8+ Kb8(other moves allow a R check. ) 88.Nc6+ Kc7 89.Nxa5+ Kd6 90.Rc6+ Kd5 91.Bc4+ Ke4 92.Kb4 and the White K can safely advance and shepherd the Q side pawns home and his pieces will make it impossible for the Black Kp to advance beyond e3, However there are many possible K moves in this line.
Now for the game.|
|Jul-06-12|| ||paulalbert: Under promotion to N with check and then avoiding the perpetual check from black Q the obvious theme: Working out the details from there beyond my pay grade.|
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