|Dec-05-05|| ||Darknite: Maybe its just me but 12...0-0!. Kasparov's ability to truly assess this kind of position is remarkable. Castling kingside with no g pawn and the white Q on the g file looks so dangerous! Yet in almost computer fashion Kaspy recognizes that white's threats are illusory. Amazing.|
|Dec-05-05|| ||KingG: To be honest, i'm not sure he had much choice anyway. It's difficult to suggest another move. The bishop is hanging, and White's bishop is putting intolerable pressure on the e6 and f7 squares. Also, White only had two pieces in the attack, and it would take time to bring in more pieces, whereas after ...0-0, and a few pawn moves to open up for the bishop, Black has his whole army bearing down on White's king.|
Actually, all this makes me think that White should have played 13.0-0 instead. He will probably be slightly worse, but 13.0-0-0 could well be virtually losing.
|Dec-05-05|| ||RookFile: King side castling in this sort of position is not unprecedented:|
Gligoric vs Fischer, 1959
|Dec-05-05|| ||sitzkrieg: Of course, all good moves have been made by Fischer first.|
|Dec-05-05|| ||Darknite: <rookfile> i agree it may not be unprecedented but typically in these variations when black plays gxf6 the KB usually ends up on e7 (as in the fischer game) and black generally refrains from castling. Kaspy made a decision that Bg7 was much more aggressive the Be7 in this position and as <king g> points out 0-0 flows from that. My appreciation i guess stems from the entire plan beginning with Bg7.|
|Dec-05-05|| ||KingG: I think 10.Nb3 is much too passive, it only encourages Kasparov's aggressive setup. If you are going to play this move, then i think you have to castle king-side, although by adopting this set-up, you can't hope for any serious advantage.|
I think either 10.Qd2, Qd3 or Nxc6!? would have been better than the move played in the game.
|Dec-05-05|| ||keypusher: <Of course, all good moves have been made by Fischer first.>|
Some have asserted that he did not invent 1 e4, but judicious historians reject this claim.
|Dec-05-05|| ||Darknite: <king G> with any of your moves black has things like Qb6 and Bh6 and its becoming v. difficult for white to establish any kind of king safety. Nb3 at least protect the b pawn and allows white to get his K out of the way.|
|Dec-05-05|| ||RookFile: Well, let's try to come up with a
plan for white. And that would be:
as Gligoric played. This is a perfectly logical move, to fix the doubled f pawns and limit the scope of the g7 bishop. And if the e6 pawn ever leaves, either to go to e5 or
to take on f5, Nd5 will happen, and this is hard for black. Therefore, Nb3 must be an error, because it does not contribute to this logical goal for white.
f5 probably needs to be prepared with
queenside castling first.
|Dec-05-05|| ||RookFile: So, I think something like this is
what White wants: Qd2, 0-0-0, g4 and f5.
|Dec-05-05|| ||KingG: <RookFile> Yes, i think your plan is more or less the way to play this position.|
<Darknite> If you play 6.Bg5, you have to be prepared to play very sharp, risky positions. If you want to play more quietly, then it might be better to play 6.Be2, which is what White would have more or less transposed into had he castled king-side.
|Dec-05-05|| ||RookFile: Well, it's not really my plan, it's
what Gligoric did. He found it over
the board, and Gligoric's idea was considered to be the correct way of handling this type of situation.
|Dec-05-05|| ||Darknite: f5 probably does cause the most headaches for black. 10. f5 Qb6 is certainly interesting....|
|Dec-05-05|| ||RookFile: How would it go? 10. f5 Qb6 11. Nxc6
and 12. fxe6...... something like this?
|Dec-05-05|| ||Darknite: Well 10. f5 Qb6 11. Nxc6 bxc6 and Qxb2 is the threat. so 12. fxe6?! Qxb2 13. exf7+ Kd8 14. Na4 Qb4+ 15. b3 Qxe4 and it doesnt look great for white! And if not 12. fxe6 then what is whites plan? either Rb1 b3 or Na4 all look pretty unattractive and 0-0 is out for the time being.....|
|Dec-05-05|| ||RookFile: I haven't looked at your analysis yet,
but my instinct was to prepare f5
with Qd2 ( or Qd3 ) and 0-0-0 first.
|Dec-05-05|| ||Darknite: but then we are back to my original point of an immediate Qb6 or Bh6 stopping the whole f5 line before it starts...|
|Dec-05-05|| ||KingG: <Darknite> If 10.Qd2 Qb6 then 11.Nb3, and if 10...Bh6 then 11.g3. White could even consider sacrificing the pawn on b2 after 10...Qb6 and transpose into certain lines of the poinoned pawn variaton.|
|Dec-05-05|| ||RookFile: I'll have to look at this when I get off work. This ...Qb6 finesse is common, so this appears to be an important problem to understand. As darknite argues, if you play 10... Qb6 and white has to play 11. Nb3, black has helped take some of the sting out of white's desirable f5 plan. I don't think the ...Bh6 idea is anything white need worry about.|
|Feb-28-08|| ||jessicafischerqueen: Does <22.Bg4> save White here?|
|Feb-28-08|| ||jessicafischerqueen: Nope.
So the game is already lost by move 21?
No way out?
|Feb-28-08|| ||jessicafischerqueen: Hmmm after <21...Rac8> SHREDDER shows White down almost 2 pawns...|
|Feb-28-08|| ||Eyal: The game seems already lost for White after 15...f5! and 16...e5! - or even (as was suggested above) after he chose to castle queenside instead of kingside on move 13; Black's initiative is just too powerful.|
|Feb-28-08|| ||jessicafischerqueen: heh
What on earth are you doing here?
Yes, my SHREDDY views the 0-0-0 quite dimly as well...
My god <Kasparov>-- you can't give him ANY chance for the initiative.
Even when you "don't" give him a chance he seems to find a way to grab it regardless...
Clearly the greatest player of all time?
He does it all. So flexible, his "style"..
Kind of like <Spassky> Cubed, or something...
|Aug-08-15|| ||thegoodanarchist: Kasparov plays the "Kasparov" variation of the Najdorf Sicialian. Very nicely, too!|