< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 25 OF 28 ·
|Aug-11-08|| ||Whack8888: I thought Kasparov's blow up at the press conference was pretty funny -- he is yelling at the IBM guys, "I resigned in a drawn position" over and over again like he is proud of it.|
|Aug-11-08|| ||shorsman: <JoinTheArmy:> I agree, the position looks drawn with precise play, but not by perpetual check, unless I've missed something in my line. All the postings I've read about this drawn position assume DP plays 47. Bf3 but Qd7+ keeps the position alive?|
|Aug-11-08|| ||Woody Wood Pusher: I gave Master Chess (32 Bit 20 MHz) 10 hours analysing this position and it plays 37 Qb6 with the line 37...Rxa2 38Rxa2, Ra8 39Rxa8, Qa8 scored equal 0.0.|
|Aug-22-08|| ||Dionyseus: I ran a 17 hour analysis with Aquarium in IDeA mode at 30 seconds per position with Rybka 3 on my quad core Q6600 starting at move 40, here are some results:|
top line starting at move 40 for white:
40.Qb8 Rc8 41.Qb6 Kf7 42.Ra7 Rc7 43.Ra5 Rb7 44.Qc6 Qc7 45.Kf2 Qb8 46.Ra6 Ke7 47.Kg3 Qc7 48.Kh4 Qd7 49.Kh5 and the win is obvious from here.
|Aug-22-08|| ||sallom89: I keep hearing people saying IBM payed Garry to lose...(because he didn't show his fighting spirit)|
|Sep-07-08|| ||vesivialvy93: <...no evidence of cheating here by IBM...lol !!>...the only move 44.Kf1 by deep blue proves that, there is human play behind some moves...no excuses , my old dedicated chess computer MEPHISTO EXPERT TRAVEL 10MHZ (1800elo) terribly weak in endgames found 44.kh2 in 3 seconds !!!|
|Sep-07-08|| ||vesivialvy93: sorry my error previous post; EXPERT TRAVEL have found 44.Kh1...not44.Kh2|
|Sep-24-08|| ||kingscrusher: It seems there was no draw as <ToTheDeath:> has indicated. |
My analysis is as follows:
[White "Rybka 2.3 mp 32-bit"]
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 d6 8. c3
O-O 9. h3 h6 10. d4 Re8 11. Nbd2 Bf8 12. Nf1 Bd7 13. Ng3 Na5 14. Bc2 c5 15. b3
Nc6 16. d5 Ne7 17. Be3 Ng6 18. Qd2 Nh7 19. a4 Nh4 20. Nxh4 Qxh4 21. Qe2 Qd8 22.
b4 Qc7 23. Rec1 c4 24. Ra3 Rec8 25. Rca1 Qd8 26. f4 Nf6 27. fxe5 dxe5 28. Qf1
Ne8 29. Qf2 Nd6 30. Bb6 Qe8 31. R3a2 Be7 32. Bc5 Bf8 33. Nf5 Bxf5 34. exf5 f6
35. Bxd6 Bxd6 36. axb5 axb5 37. Be4 (37. Qb6 Bc7 (37... Qe7) (37... Rxa2 38.
Rxa2 Qe7 39. Qxb5 e4 40. Qa6 Re8 41. Ba4 Rd8 42. Qb6 Ra8 43. Qc6) 38. Qe6+ Qxe6
39. fxe6 Rxa2 40. Rxa2 Kf8 41. Ra6 Rd8 42. Rc6 Bb8 43. Kf1 Bd6 44. Rb6 Ke7 45.
Rb7+ Kf8 46. Ke2 h5 47. Bg6 Be7 48. Rxb5) 37... Rxa2 (37... Rcb8 38. Ra6 Rxa6
39. Rxa6 Qd8 40. Kh2 Rb7 41. Qe2) 38. Qxa2 Qd7 39. Qa7 Rc7 40. Qb6 Rb7 41. Ra8+
Kf7 42. Qa6 Qc7 43. Qc6 Qb6+ 44. Kf1 Rb8 45. Ra6 Qe3 (45... Qxc6 46. dxc6 Rc8
47. Ra7+ Rc7 48. Ra8 Bf8 49. Kf2 Bd6 50. Ke3 Bf8 51. Bd5+ Ke7 52. Ke4 h5 (52...
Kd6)) 46. Qxd6 Re8 (46... Qf4+ 47. Bf3 Qc1+ 48. Kf2 Qd2+ 49. Be2 Qf4+ 50. Kg1
Qe3+ 51. Kh1 Qc1+ 52. Bd1 Qxd1+ 53. Kh2 Qf1 54. Ra7+ Kg8 55. Qxb8+ Kh7 56. Ra2
h5 57. Qxb5 h4 58. Qc5 Qf4+ 59. Kh1 Qf1+ 60. Qg1) 47. Qd7+ (47. h4 h5 48. Bf3
Qc1+ 49. Kf2 Qd2+ 50. Be2 Qf4+ 51. Kg1 Qe3+ 52. Kh2 Qf4+) (47. Bf3 Qc1+ 48. Kf2
) (47. Qc6 Qxe4 Draw! (47... Qc1+ 48. Ke2 Qb2+ 49. Kd1 Qxc3 50. Ra7+ Kf8 51.
Qc5+ Kg8 52. d6) 48. Ra7+ (48. d6 Qb1+ 49. Kf2 Qc2+ 50. Kg1 Qc1+ 51. Kh2 Qf4+
52. g3 Qd2+ 53. Qg2 Qd3
And black is equal! - because rook is on e7 instead of e7!!!) 48... Kf8 49.
Qc5+ Kg8 50. d6 black has perpetual here ?! Qb1+ 51. Kf2 (51. Ke2 Qb2+ 52.
Kf1 Qc1+ 53. Kf2 Qb2+ 54. Kg1 Qc1+ 55. Kh2 Qf4+ 56. g3 Qd2+ 57. Kh1) 51... Qc2+
52. Kg1 Qc1+ 53. Kh2 Qf4+ 54. Kg1 Qc1+) 47... Re7 48. Qc6 Qxe4 ot draw! (
48... Qf4+ 49. Bf3 Qc1+ 50. Kf2 Qd2+ 51. Kg1 Qe3+ 52. Kh2 Qf4+ 53. Kh1 Qc1+ 54.
Bd1 Qxd1+ 55. Kh2 Qd2 56. d6 Qf4+ 57. g3 Qf2+ 58. Qg2 Qxg2+ 59. Kxg2 Rd7 60.
Kf3 winning easily!) (48... Qc1+ 49. Ke2 Qb2+ 50. Kd1 Qxc3 51. d6 Mate in 11
) 49. d6 Qb1+ (49... Qf4+ 50. Ke2) (49... Qxf5+ 50. Kg1 Rd7 51. Qxb5 Qe6 52.
Qc5 Kg6 53. Rc6 e4 54. Kf2 f5 55. b5 Kf6 56. b6 h5 57. Rc7 e3+ 58. Ke2 Qe4 59.
Qd4+ Qxd4 60. cxd4 Rxd6 61. b7 Rb6 62. Rc6+) 50. Kf2 Qxf5+ (50... Qc2+ 51. Kg1
Qc1+ 52. Kh2 Qf4+ 53. g3 Qd2+ 54. Qg2 Qxg2+ 55. Kxg2 Rd7 56. Kf3) 51. Kg1 Rd7
52. Qxb5 1-0
It seems essentially that a preliminary Qd7+ is decisive forcing the rook to e7. Then Qc6. And now White can sac the bishop on d1 later, and play Qg2! when Qd3 is no longer drawing because of the subtle difference of the rook being on e7 as opposed to e8.
|Sep-24-08|| ||kingscrusher: Two relevant video annotations for the final position. |
The first one talks about Be4:
The second one explodes the myth about the Qe3 draw:
|Sep-24-08|| ||nimh: I analyzed the ending thoroughly for a couple of days already a year ago and I couldn't find anything promising for white.|
One 5 minute blitz proves nothing.
Instead of 49...Qb1+?? white simply plays ...Qd3+ or ...Qxf5+ and the draw is unavoidable.
For the time being I'm strongly convinced this position indeed is dead draw.
|Sep-25-08|| ||Zahl: The final position is not a draw by repetition despite everything that has been written to the contrary. The best line from the final position is|
45...Qe3 46. Qxd6 Re8 47.
Qd7+ Re7 48. Qc6 Qxe4 49. d6 Qd3+ 50. Kg1 Re8 51. Ra1
and white has a very strong attack and there is no repetition. This line was discussed a year ago on the chessninja.com forum.
|Sep-30-08|| ||MikELO: Sorry but where does Deep Blue ignore the sacrificed pawn and "play like Fischer"|
I'm not that good and can't see it when I'm this deprived of coffee
|Sep-30-08|| ||micartouse: <MikELO> kingscrusher's first video is a good discussion on the move Kasparov expressed suspicion about. Instead of 37. Be4, 37. Qb6 would fork b5 and Bd6, but it would allow Black some counterplay based on the passed e-pawn.|
|Sep-30-08|| ||CanteurX: "play like fisher"
Fischer vs Spassky, 1992
|Jan-09-09|| ||andrewleef1: Qe3!!! saves the game.|
|Jan-14-09|| ||WhiteRook48: Kasparov was lost in the See.|
|Jan-21-09|| ||MartinII: |
click for larger view
Rybka now in a lowly PC is obviously stronger that Deep Blue as it will not play 45.Ra6, see above position (which leads to draw after 45...Qe3). Rybka's analysis shows that 45.Qd7+ is stronger than the text move made by Deeb Blue.
Rybka sees the line that after 45.Ra6 there's Qe3 hence gives 45.Ra6 an almost nil advantage compared to Qd7+ which is approx +1.xx .
I don't know if IM Rajlich already included this position in Rybka knowledge the reason why it sees Qe3=
|Feb-24-09|| ||SirChrislov: Check out the movie Game Over about Kasparov vs DB. After game #2 at the post-game conference, a reporter asks a chinese guy from the deep blue team: What did you guys do to it? -we took it out last night and had a couple of cocktails. LOL!!|
|Feb-27-09|| ||just a kid: I got a question.After 45...Qe3 46.Qxd6 what about 46...Qxe4?It seems that white can't stop perpetual check after 47.Qxb8 Qd3+ 48.Kf2 Qd2+ 49. Kf1 Qd1+ 50.Kf2 Qd2+ 51.Kg1 Qe3+ 52.Kh2 Qf4+ etc.|
|Feb-27-09|| ||JeffCaruso: <just a kid: I got a question.After 45...Qe3 46.Qxd6 what about 46...Qxe4?> I think that White wins by making sure he takes with check: 47. Ra7+ Kg8 48. Qxb8+|
|Jun-22-09|| ||WhiteRook48: who does the computer think he is, Poseidon? (Bla bla bla)|
|Sep-18-09|| ||JamesMazur2: It is my opinion that White wins in the position that Black resigned at. However, I am not at all sure of this, and I am not even great at chess. However, I did discover this line with my own human analysis, and not a computer:|
46. Qxd6 Re8
47. Qd7+ Re7
And Black does not have immmediate drawing resources. I later searched for analysis on the game and did read about the possibility of this being a win.
I am currently working on analyzing the position and I will eventually know its true value. Here is one continuation that I believe is solid (although it is only 3 ply longer lol).
49. d6 Qd3+
A complete line to come when I have it.
|Sep-18-09|| ||newton296: <The second one explodes the myth about the Qe3 draw:|
this video is just wrong , the winning move giving for white in that video Qd7+! ...Re7 Qc6! is still a draw ! blacks Qxf5 + does in fact, still lead to a draw by repetition.
|Sep-19-09|| ||JamesMazur2: OK, I have done some analysis now. Here it is:
46. Qxd6 Re8
47. Qd7+ Re7
This is perfect play (none of the moves shown change the final value of the original position).
Black's only legitmate responses are Qf4+ and Qxe4. Although the latter of the moves is widely consider stronger, to have a won position, White must be able to win if either move is played. Here is analysis (using Rybka) of Qf4+.
49. Bf3 Qc1+
50. Kf2 Qd2+
51. Kg1 Qc1+
52. Kh2 Qf4+
53. Kh1 Qc1+
54. Bd1! Qxd1+
55. Kh2 Qd2
56. d6 Re8
57. Ra1 Kf8
58. Qc7 Kg8
59. d7 Rf8
60. Rf1 h5
61. Qc6 Rd8
62. Qxb5 Qxd7
63. Qxc4+ Kf8
64. b5 Rb8
65. Qc5+ Qe7
66. Qd5 e4
67. Re1 Re8
68. Kg1!? Qa7+
69. Kh1 e3
70. Qd6+ Qe7
71. Qxe7+ Rxe7
72. Kg1 Re5
73. c4 Ke7
74. Kf1 Kd6
75. Ke2 Kc5
76. Rb1 Kb6
This may not be the best reply, but it is what Rybka originally suggested....
78. hxg4 Re7
79. Rb3 Rc7
80. Rc3 Kc5
81. Rxe3 Kxc4
82. b6 Rb7
83. Kf3 Kd5
84. Re6 Kc5
85. Kg3 Rd7
86. g5 fxg5
87. Kg4 Kb5
88. Kxg5 Kc5
89. Re8 Kd6
90. Rc8 Rb7
91. Rc7 Rxb6
92. Rxg7 Rb5
93. Kg6 Rb4
94. f6 Rf4
95. Kf7 Rf3
96. Rh7 Rf2
97. Rh6 Kd7
98. Rg6 Kd8
99. Kf8 Rf4
100. f7 Rf2
101. Ra6 Kd7
102. Kg7 Ke7
103. Ra7+ Kd6
104. f8Q+ Rxf8
105. Kxf8 Kd5
106. Ra4 Kc5
107. Kf7 Kd5
108. Kf6 Kc5
109. Ke6 Kb5
110. Rd4 Kc5
111. Re4 Kc6
112. Re5 Kc7
113. Rc5+ Kb7
114. Kd7 Kb6
115. Rd5 Kb7
116. Rd6 Kb8
117. Kc6 Ka8
118. Kb6 Kb8
119. Rd8# 1-0
I do not guarantee that this analysis is perfect, but I definitely believe that White wins after 48. ...Qf4.
Analysis of 48. ...Qxe4 to come.
|Sep-20-09|| ||JamesMazur2: <newton296: blacks Qxf5 + does in fact, still lead to a draw by repetition.>|
May you please post the actual line where the position repeats?
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