< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 3 ·
|May-15-05|| ||woodenbishop: GREAT GAME! Georgy toppled the mighty Keres in this classic... sadly, Ilivitsky commited suicide by jumping out a window.|
|Dec-20-07|| ||zb2cr: Blast, I'm first, and I missed it! I saw the Rooks on the 8th rank. However, I did not see the use of the White King to chase the Black Rook back to where it interfered with the Black King's flight.|
|Dec-20-07|| ||JamesBJames: I switched the 38th and 39th moves around but got the 40th and 41th correct.|
Does it matter in which order you play the first two moves?
|Dec-20-07|| ||DarthStapler: I had the idea of trapping the rook but not mate|
|Dec-20-07|| ||WannaBe: <JamesBJames> Yes it does! Because if you play the R+ first, the black king goes to h7, and can defend the black rook!!|
38.Rd8+ Kh7 39.Kh4 Kh6
|Dec-20-07|| ||JamesBJames: Ah, of course! Can't believe I missed Kh6.
Well, while I didn't get the point today, I can pride myself in actually coming really close to the right idea.
|Dec-20-07|| ||Kings Indian: Very nice, saw it all the way. If 40...Rf6 white mates with Rh1 Kg6 gxh5 Kf7 Ra7#|
|Dec-20-07|| ||zooter: i'm thinking...
38.Kh4 Rg6 39.Rd8+ Kh7 40.Ra8 Rh2+ 41.Kg3 wins the rook or mates...
let me see...
|Dec-20-07|| ||zooter: oh, missed 1 part in notation (Raa8 though that was my intention anyways) but i missed 40...Rh6 41.g5 but probably that's the logical move...|
|Dec-20-07|| ||mkrk17: I got the whole thing. First i tried to trap the rook with my king and pawn. But that didnt go anywhere. Then i solowly realized that his king too is trapped, then the whole sequence was easy.|
Kh4 Rg6, Rd8+ Kh7, Raa8 and black has no defence against Rh8# except for sacrificing a rook or two.
|Dec-20-07|| ||zooter: stupid comment, but in the game, 42.Kh3 wins i guess. Anybody think otherwise?|
|Dec-20-07|| ||Funicular: I got it quick to think that the idea was to mate the black king, and saw the importance of blocking g6 practically at the same time i saw Kh4. After Raa8 i mentally thought black would go Rxh2+ Kg3 and now black losses the rook. I didn't see the Rh6 possibility, though i think that i would have played g5 anyways, since clearly Rxh2 only buys time. I like this kind of situations where you don't care to be checked a couple of times, since you know your king is safe and ultimately the other side has no real defense against checkmate.... and i love reaching a perpetual check situation when im about to be checkmated!
By the way, would somebody be kind enough to post the link to the famous nakamura game where he plays white, his king ends up being forced out of the castling up to g7, i think, and when black cannot avoid losing a knight i think, resigns. I remember sb had posted sth like "Wow, black draws the white king to g7..and the result is...white wins the game"|
Thank you all for reading and/or answering my humble request
its 3am, if you'll excuse me im off to bed :P
BTW, zooter, i think that Kh3 is like...way too much a computer-like cold-blooded move.
I'd just play h3! :D and black can't even check my king!!
|Dec-20-07|| ||dzechiel: White to play. Material even. "Medium."
When I first looked at this position, I immediately wanted to take advantage of the misplaced black rook on g5. It's placement is quite precarious and I thought there must be a way to trap it somehow.
But the more I look at the position, the more I think that threatening the rook is more a means to an end. We really want to hunt for bigger game.
On the rook. Black has only one more that doesn't allow white to capture the rook on the next move.
Now black is threatening to capture our h-pawn, with check no less, so any moves we make must be forcing or set up major threats. 39 gxh5 is NOT one of those moves, as it allows 39...Rxh2#! Instead, let's give a check
Very forcing in that black only has one legal move:
Now, a quiet, but powerful move
This threatens 41 Rh8#. How can black defend?
- 40...Kh6 41 Rh8# is still mate
- 40...Rxh2+ 41 Kg3 attacking black's rook on h2 and is still threatening mate with 42 Rh8#
- 40...Rh6 41 g5 and the rook has nowhere good to go
- 40...Rf6 41 Rh8+ Kg6 42 gxh5+ Kf7 43 Ra7#
This last line took me as long to figure out as the entire rest of the analysis. I kept thinking that the black king was getting away when reaching f7.
Now I wonder what black's last move was. Could he have avoided this situation easily? And, did the clock have anything to do with Keres' loss (we are on move 38)?
Time to check.
|Dec-20-07|| ||patzer2: Following Kere's blunder 37...f5??, Llivitsky prepares a double attack to win a decisive piece using a series of deflections, initiated by today's puzzle solution 38. Kh4!|
The mate threat associated with 40. Raa8! (threatening 41. Rh8#) forces the deflection 40...Rh6 , since the alternative 40...Rf6 41. Rh8+ Kg6 42. gxh5+! Kf7 43. Ra7+ Rb7 44. Rxb7# is mate-in-four.
After the forced 40...Rh6, White plays the winning double attack 41. g5! -- simultaneously threatening the trapped Rook and mate-in-one.
No help for Black is 41...Rxh2+ 42. Kg3 , as it leaves both White Rooks enprise (double attack). The feeble attempt at creating a mating web with 41...f4 is an illusory threat, as White simply captures the Rook and his King walks free after 41...f4 42. gxh6 Rxh2+ 43. Kg5 .
|Dec-20-07|| ||HeMateMe: < woodenbishop > What are the circumstances of Ilivitsky jumping out the window?|
Would this be the Turtoro variation....?
|Dec-20-07|| ||mkrk17: I guess after 41...f4 (as played in the game), white simply plays Kh3 and black is forced to drop a rook. Any thoughts on this... ?|
|Dec-20-07|| ||patzer2: After 41...f4, White has three winning moves: 42. gxh6! (my choice to demonstrate Black's mating web is nonexistant); 42. Kh3! as you describe it; and 42. h3! All three win a piece by keeping the double attack in play.|
|Dec-20-07|| ||Cibator: Yes, not too difficult. Slightly reminiscent of
Alekhine vs Yates, 1922
Here too White's king "steals a rook in broad daylight" (to quote Chernev) or mates.
|Dec-20-07|| ||rusich: Jesus,getlmen,is everyone a master here?|
|Dec-20-07|| ||Gilmoy: <zooter: ... 42.Kh3 wins i guess.>
<mkrk17: ... after 41...f4 ... white simply plays Kh3 and black is forced to drop a rook.>
42.gxh6 and White's K can escape to g5. 42.h3 wins also.|
|Dec-20-07|| ||UdayanOwen: A neat little puzzle, with a clean forcing win and few side variations.... No super long posts for me tonight!!|
38.Kh5 Rg6 39.Rd8+ Kh7 40.R(a)a8 threatening mate on h8. Black must play either 40...Rh6 or Rf6 (40...Rxh2+ 41.Kg3, and black must give up the rook or be checkmated)
40...Rh6 41.g5 , when black loses a rook (If 41...Rg6 42.Rh8#, or 41...Rxh2+ Kg3 and both rooks are en prise).
40...Rf6 41.Rh8+ Kg6 42.gxh5+ Kf7 43.Ra7+ Rb7 44.Rxb7#
|Dec-20-07|| ||UdayanOwen: Man, I can't believe a player of Keres's calibre allowed this relatively simple forcing win... I guess it's true that superGM's blunder too (if only occassionally). At his level this oversight would definitely be considered a bad blunder, unless he was in time trouble, which is possible.|
|Dec-20-07|| ||UdayanOwen: It's a bit disappointing when the puzzles are clean like this... there is really nothing left to talk about.|
Oh well, guess we've got some harder one's coming over the next few days....
Chess kick ass!!!!!
|Dec-20-07|| ||lifemate: Keres was obviously obssesed with idea of attacking the white king...one of the important factors that determine a strong chess grandmaster is the ability to switch tactics in mid game,and thats ,essentially, a psychological triumph that not all players posses..even at grandmasters level|
|Dec-20-07|| ||Murphyman: I pretty much got it - ended up in the same boat as Gilmoy, Zooter and Funicular.|
Well done to DZechiel for again working through all black's credible alternatives to the mate threat 41. Rh8#.
I got Lazy and only looked at 40... Rxh2+ 41. Kg3.
I am only a player rated in the 1200-1400 bracket and in practical play with time controls of 75 mins for an entire game in our Scottish Leagues I generally don't have the talent to be quick enough exhaustive on analysing all my opponents option on what is the 6th ply especially when I don't know a tactic is on.
I got into time trouble early in the season trying to cover all the bases and my results have improved since... its v. frustrating as I know I have the capability to calculate long variations to 6th ply and beyond - I just aint fast enough.
Anyway DZechiel ignore my moans about practical play and well done again for showing us how being thorough in solving a problem pays dividends.
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