< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Apr-23-07|| ||WannaBe: Bobby would be somewhere around 16 years of age... Wonder if he cried after this game...|
I heard he was known to do that after a loss in his earlier years...
|Apr-23-07|| ||outplayer: Lol thanks :-)|
|Jun-22-08|| ||Some call me Tim: Fischer stuck to this variation despite its cramped positions and lack of real attacking possibilities. Keres, Smyslov and Petrosian picked up on it and scored well against him in these games. At Bled 1961 Fischer opted for 6. d4 which opens the position a bit more. The game ended in a draw. Fischer vs Keres, 1961|
In 1968 Fischer went back to 6. d3 but opted for 7. a3 to prevent ...Bb4, and won against a non-
GM. Fischer vs S Kagan, 1968
Of course he used other variations against the Caro-Kann including his famous win against Petrosian in 1970 with the Exchange Fischer vs Petrosian, 1970 But that was after he had learned some hard lessons in the art of preparing for his strongest competitors.
|Jun-22-08|| ||Atking: Yes in 1959 clearly Fischer was still a bit too young to face some players like Keres, Tal or Petrossian Few years later he could challenge them. Once I tried 10.c3 with on 10...Bc5 11.Bc1~12.Nd2. It could be an improvement over 10.b3.|
|Jun-23-08|| ||Petrosianic: <Bobby would be somewhere around 16 years of age... Wonder if he cried after this game...|
I heard he was known to do that after a loss in his earlier years...>
I haven't heard of Fischer crying after a loss. But there are several stories of Spassky doing that, particularly after the "Biggie", the most crushing defeat of his early career, and the one that he called his Most Difficult Game for years afterwards (maybe still does):
Spassky vs Tal, 1958
|Jun-23-08|| ||RookFile: Well, I would cry. This was an absolute positional crush by Keres.|
|Jun-23-08|| ||maxi: <Petrosianic> That Spassky-Tal game is really something, from all points of view.|
|Aug-29-08|| ||GrahamClayton: You know when you have a bad position when 15. Ra2 is the best move. 15. e5 Nd5 16 c4 might have been worth a shot.|
|Sep-02-08|| ||GrahamClayton: Source: Andy Soltis "Chess Lists", 2nd edition, McFarland Publishing, 2002|
|May-27-09|| ||Eyal: The way Fischer self-destructs here with the pawn-pushing on the K-side is reminiscent of Fischer vs D Keller, 1959 earlier that year, only in that game Fischer did it while trying impatiently to force a win in an equal position, whereas here his position is already inferior and he seems to be in a desperate need to do something "active".|
Keres was a consistent 1...e5 player, so his employment of the Caro-Kann indicates that he was virtually certain Fischer would repeat the rather dubious line that he already played against Petrosian and Smyslov in earlier rounds, and that got him into trouble against the former. As <Atking> mentioned, <10.c3> might be an improvement over b3:
<It is quite surprising that not once [out of 3 games in this tournament] did he try the centrally oriented 10.c3, and if then 10...Bc5 11.Bc1! and White stands very well: Black's outpost on d4 is shaky and Black's queen and bishop are awkwardly placed; if Black tries the interesting 10...Ba3!? White gets excellent compensation for a pawn after 11.Nxa3 Qxb2 12.Rb1 Qxa3 13.cxd4 Qxa2 14.Qd1!> (Mednis, "How to Beat Bobby Fischer")
|May-27-09|| ||parisattack: It didn't take Fischer too long to figure the Two Knights didn't buy much against the C-K.|
|May-27-09|| ||Eyal: Well, he dropped the line with d3 & g3 after his disastrous experience with it (at least against the Soviet players) in the 1959 candidates, but he kept employing the two knights occasionally – for example, in Fischer vs Keres, 1961 he tried 6.d4, and in Fischer vs S Kagan, 1968 7.a3 and 8.g4. Fischer actually never settled on a single "anti C-K" weapon (see
According to a note in MSMG, one of the main reasons he liked the two knights is to exclude the possibility of Bf5 – after 1.e4 c6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Nf3, 3…dxe4 4.Nxe4 Bf5? 5.Ng3 Bg6 6.h4 h6 7.Ne5 is very bad for Black.
|Sep-01-09|| ||meth0dSNK: 7.. Bg5
|Nov-08-09|| ||Plato: <meth0dSNK: 7.. Bg5
7.g3 is not a mistake and does not deserve a question mark (though it is not the preferred move anymore in that position).
7.Bg5 is not an improvement and might be inferior, as after 7...Bb4 Black is fine and White doesn't even have the response 8.Bd2 (as in the game) unless he wants to lose a tempo for nothing.
|Jul-24-10|| ||technical draw: Yes, I believe this is the famous Fischer crying game. Keres himself had to console him by saying, "Bobby, I can win a game too!" And could anyone doubt that the winner of the famous 1938 AVRO tournament (ahead of Botvinnik, Alekhine and Capablanca) could win a game?|
|Oct-09-13|| ||wwall: Chess Review, January 1960, page 16, has a different ending to this game. After 27...N4xh5, instead of 28.hxg7 here, the article has 28.g4 Bh2+ 29.Kg2 Nxg4 30.Nd2 Nf4+ and Black resigns.|
|Nov-14-13|| ||zydeco: I would have expected Bg5 on move 17 or 18, trying to trade bishop for knight, and then play Nd2: white should be equal if he gets the knight to c4. If ....Ne8 white can play Bc1.|
|May-10-15|| ||Blind Pigs: <drukenknight: So did the Russians really prepare this line for the tournament or were they just improvising? >|
I doubt the Soviets conspired against RJF at this point. They probably reslized he was still a very young player, and that steering him away from the more analyzed variations would give him trouble.
|May-10-15|| ||RookFile: I don't think it was a big plot. Keres said in an article he wrote about Bobby Fischer that they noticed that Fischer's judgement in this line wasn't quite correct. So, they lined up to play it, even some that didn't normally use this defense.|
|Sep-10-16|| ||RookFile: Same thing happens in any random chess club. If you notice somebody playing an opening incorrectly, the best thing to do it keep quiet about until you get a chance to play in a tournament game.|
|Jun-13-17|| ||plang: Apparently the first time that Keres had used the Caro Kann - he likely based that choice on Fischer's poor results against the defense. Fischer played 7 g3!? 5 times in this tournament scoring only 1.5 points; 7 Bd2 is the main line. In Petrosian's 2 games with Black against Fischer he played 9..Bxd2+ aiming for a reversed King's Indian; in the 2 games that Keres played against Fischer he played the more ambitious 9..Qb6. 21 fxe? was a positional error; 21 g4 or 21 Bxd7 followed by f5 were alternatives. 26 Bxd6..Qxd6 27 g4..Ne5 28 Qg3..Nfxg4 29 Bxg4..Nxg4 would not have helped White.|
|Jun-13-17|| ||Petrosianic: A couple of people used the Caro-Kann for the first time in that tournament, just because Fischer insisted on sticking to that weak line. Benko tried it too. Petrosian at least played the Caro-Kann often.|
|Jul-25-17|| ||Toribio3: Fischer played without energy!|
|Jul-25-17|| ||Petrosianic: <Toribio3: Fischer played without energy!>|
No, he played passively, it's the other one he played without energy. If you're going to rely on flip generalizations, use them correctly.
|May-23-18|| ||cwcarlson: 21.fe? ♘e5 ∓; 21.g4 ef 22.♗f4 ♗d6 23.♗d6 ♕d6 24.g5 ♘e8 25.♘d2= Houdini.|
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