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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Apr-10-09
 | | DrGridlock: < solstys: According to Fritz, after 49. bxc5 Qh4 50. Qxg3 Rxg3 51. bxc6, white has the advantage. Any opinions? > Computer analyses can date quickly- especially if they're not done with advanced programs, or to a significant depth. Rybka scores White's continuation at move 49 as follows: Be2 -.07
Rf3 -.09
Rfc2 -.24
Rfd2 -.30
bxc5 -.54
all other continuations: -1.5 or better for black.
Rybka's best line for white is:
Be2 Qh4
Rf3 exf3
Nxf3 Qh8
Qd4 Ne6
Qf6 Qh5
Nh4 Rf7
Bxh5 Rxf6
Rybka's line for White's bxc5 continuation is:
bxc5 Qh4
Qxg3 Qxg3
Rb3 Qg4
cxb6 Bc8
Be2 Qg6
Bf1 Rb7
Rb5 Bd7
After White's game continuation at move 49 (Rfd2) the game can still be saved, but after Qh4 it is important for White to continue -
Nf3 exf3
gxf3 Re7
Qd4 Bc6
Qxd6 Bxf3
Rg2 axb4
where Black's advantage is -.30
After White's continuation at move 50 (Be2), the game can still be saved so long as White replies to Rh7 with Bh5, though after:
Bh5 Rxh5
Kf1 Nd3
Ne2 Nxb2
Rxb2 Qh1+
Ng1 Rh4
bxa5 bxa5
Rybka's score of a -.53 advangate for Black is a good game for Petrosian. All other continuations other than Bh5 lead to a forced mate for Black. Black's combination beginning with 47 ... Rg3 is a "speculative combination" in that it does not lead to a forced win for Black, but demands accurate play by White. In all lines Black is no worse than even, with opportunities for a Black win if White plays inaccurately. Keres made small mistakes with 49 Rfd2 and 50 Be2, and a gigantic mistake with 51 Kf1. |
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Apr-10-09
 | | ray keene: fascinating stuff-the book i wrote with julian simpole on petrosian v the elite was published in 2006, but we had finished writing it well before then. when we found the queen sac which we thought was new and probably wd have saved keres, we had never seen it anywhere before-the november 2005 date for its appearance here suggests to me that we had already found it but not yet published it! in any case the masterly tour de force by < dr gridlock> indicates that the position is deeper and richer than even i had thought , but it in no way invalidates petrosians grandiose combination-thanks for some great work |
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| Apr-16-09 | | Nezhmetdinov: <ray keene> I loved your Learn from the Grandmasters book - it is where I first encountered my (assumed) namesake in Tal's entry and marvellous games such as Benko vs Suttles, 1964 and M Stean vs Browne, 1974
It was a great format - you really should do another, it is lovely to see the top player's chess taste. |
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| May-15-09 | | drnooo: Anyone who is wont to leave Keres out of the top ten players of all time should look at the games between these two guys. They met probably when Keres was a tad past his prime,but still, neither could really make a dent in the other.
If Korchnoi is right in calling Keres one of the few real masters of attack, and everybody of course Petrosian the supreme master of defense, there you have it: always a day at the carnival. What a sideshow. |
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| May-20-09 | | arsen387: The finishing combination of this game starting with Rg3 is just astonishing. Pure genius! |
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May-20-09
| | ray keene: <nezh> thanks for the compliment |
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| May-24-09 | | Hugh the Drover: A Queen sacrifice to lure the other Queen away from being able to intercede against a first-rank rook mate, supported by a Damocletian pawn. |
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Aug-03-10
 | | sevenseaman: Engine seizure! |
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| Sep-19-10 | | Whitehat1963: The Guess-the-Move average score indicates that this is a very tough game for most regular players to understand. |
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| Sep-20-10 | | fab4: I had to play this game through a couple of times trying to spot where Keres went wrong!All of his moves upto move 43 seem so natural. Keres' 43.Kg1 was the first move I had to try and understand.I thought he was making a run for it with his king. Then I looked harder at 42...Qa8 , an extraordinary and beautiful move, and realised it was connected with the long diaganal and threat of a black knight landing on d3... still, Keres' must've felt uncomfortable about putting his king on the g file lol. In the 49.bc Rybka line below given by <DrGridlock> I noticed 53.Ne6!? as a possibility instead of the seemingly pointless 53.Be2/54.Bf1 manouvre. The knight heads for d8 and moves like c5 come into play. 54..Be6 55.b7 looks ok for white to me. Or am I missing something?! Anyway what struck me about Petrosian's play was his handling of the black queen.The way he swaps her to the kingside Qb6/Rfc8/Qd8/Qe8/Qf8, where she reinforces the black squares there and prevents a trade of bishops,to her again swinging over to the queenside with Qa8,indirectly protecting the Nc5 and dreaming of the long diaganal opening,to her final and last deadly sortie, swooping her over to the kingside again with Qd8/Qh4, scenting the blood of Keres' hapless monarch. This game has changed my opinion of Petrosian in one fell swoop! |
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Sep-20-10
 | | twin phoenix: This is a beautiful game!!! had to playover the ending three times just to begin to understand... If i had white...n I know that it not that good but in OTB play i really like 13. B-h6. "Defanging the dragon" Try to get rid of that dude on g7 pronto! get rid of him n i win 75%. don't and win 50% at best... hard to try to improve on Keres though!! |
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| Nov-04-10 | | lostgalaxy: If this is a tennis match I can see Nadal as black, attacking from deep behind the baseline! |
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Nov-08-10
| | sevenseaman: ...32. Qxf4+ is a superlative, thinking move; it brings in the bacon. |
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| Nov-09-10 | | diceman: <sevenseaman: ...32. Qxf4+ is a superlative, thinking move; it brings in the bacon.> I like 47...Rg3!! much better.
It takes the squares away (from the king)
and opens the files to allow
Qxf4+. |
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| Nov-14-10 | | Tigranny: Brilliant queen sacrifice by Tigran for Rh1 mate. |
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| Jan-31-11 | | Whitehat1963: Good Lord, there is so much subtle maneuvering here! Really hard to follow. One for Rybka 10 to analyze! |
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Jun-17-11
 | | Eduardo Bermudez: amazing counterattack ! |
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| Jun-30-11 | | YetAnotherAmateur: On the question of refusing 47. ... Rg3!, one possible line might be: 48. Qd2 Nd3 49. Bxd3 exd3 50. hxg3 Rf3 51. Qh4 Qxd3 52. Qh2+ Kf1 53. Qh1+ Ke2 54. Qxg2+ Kd1 55. Qxb2 and it's curtains for white shortly thereafter. |
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| Dec-29-11 | | Mudphudder: Hard to believe Keres' allowed black's h-pawn to get as far as it did.. |
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| Dec-29-11 | | SChesshevsky: It seems that Petrosian liked to play this defense. I think here Keres plays way to slowly from around 21.Rc2 to 27.Qh4, maybe he couldn't see a good plan. It seems White does better by opening lines up early like in the Petrosian dbase games against Reshko & Larsen. I've been studying the Petrosian-Korchnoi 1974 match and especially liked
this Korchnoi vs Petrosian, 1974. |
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Jan-07-12
 | | plang: Petrosian's patient back-rank maneuvering led him to take over the initiative with 27..f6, 28..e6 and 30..f5 although he created significant weaknesses in the process. Christiansen after 31..gxf:
"White has finally suceeded in creating some weaknesses in Black's pawn structure, although Black has potential counterplay along the g-line augmented by his well-placed bishop bearing down on the a1-h1 diagonal. With accurate play White should be able to slowly increase his advantage by keeping Black tied to the defense of the d6-pawn." 39..e4? was an uncharacteristic positional error by Petrosian; stronger was 39..Qh4 40 fxe..Rh6 41 Qg1..dxr 42 Rxd7..Ncd7 43 Nd5..Bxd5 44 Rxd5..Nf6 with a powerful attack. Perhaps 42 Nb5 would have been a better way for White to play the position. Also, 43 Ne2 with the idea of Ng3 would have been a possible improvement. Keres could have defended against the rook sacrifice with 47 Rfd2; after 47 b4? he was clearly worse. It was not obligatory for Keres to take the rook though after 48 Qe1..Nd3 he would have had a tough defense. A beautiful if flawed game. Interesting that neither Clarke nor Kasparov included the game in their books on Petrosian. |
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| Jan-07-12 | | SChesshevsky: <<39..e4? was an uncharacteristic positional error by Petrosian>> I think 39..e4 might have been a typical restraining move by Petrosian. As a protected passed pawn he keeps White always thinking about the blockade. 42..Qa8 makes the block even more necessary. Seemed to work OK as the white Q never moved after 38.Qe3. As Petrosian often plays, only when he felt he had White pretty well restrained did he start pushing for an attack. |
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| Jan-07-12 | | Penguincw: Tigran sure is a hard player to beat. |
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| Apr-06-13 | | RookFile: Paul Keres tied Tigran Vartanovich Petrosian 3 to 3, with 30 draws. |
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| Apr-25-13 | | Sem: Without any information I would not have thought that White was the great attacking player Paul Keres. |
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sac: 47...Rg3