< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·
|Jan-19-06|| ||Cogano: Hi <Darknite>. Thanks for the line. Actually, I already considered that, that's what makes sense to me. But, as you point out, even if Black is busted,
he can at least interrupt the mating pattern. For at that point, Black's rook is still at d8 and he can capture the bishop with it. So, not only is that not mate in 3, I also can't seem to figure out how White could still mate Black after 30.Bxd3 Rd3. Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it. Take very good care and have yourself a
most joyous day, every day. Cheers!|
|Jan-19-06|| ||Gypsy: <Cogano> I'll take an 'educated' guess: I think author was just being chess-blind or realy sloppy. He probably means 27...Kb8 28.Rfxb8+ Kc8 29.Ba6 ... where the threat of mate on the next move is such that Black has to turn to desperados 29...Qx3 30.Bxd3 Rxd3 31.Kxd3 Nxg1 ... which is an easy win for White. But your author either blanked regarding the Qxd3+ intermezzo; or saw it first, but forgot about it when he was editing.|
|Jan-19-06|| ||tamar: I think you are correct <Cogano> The annotator got carried away. Hans Kmoch gives the same line up to White's 29th, but just says "and wins"|
27.Rxa7+ Kb8 28.Rfxb7+ Kc8 29.Ba6 Qxd3+ 30 Bxd3 Rxd3 31 Rf7 Rd7 32 Rfxd7 Rf8 33 b7+ Kxd7 34 b8Q+ switches to another mating pattern
|Jan-19-06|| ||tamar: Hey <Gypsy> I wanted to ask during the Topalov game. Was there a way to win that ending after ...Rxd3|
|Jan-19-06|| ||Gypsy: <tamar> I did not see anything for either side. The way to tempt devil was to play Rb1. But I would have opted for Rxd3 as well.|
|Jan-19-06|| ||Cogano: Hi <Gypsy>. Thanks for the analysis & reassurance. I hate to bother you fur-ther, but how is White supposed to win after 31.Kxd3 Nxg1? Thanks a bunch. Take care and have a great day. Cheers!|
Hi <tamar>. And thank you also for the analysis & reassu-rance. I must ask, why 31.Rf7 as opposed to Kxd3, winning a clear piece, even if Black responds with Nxg1. The bishop can't compare in value at this point in the game with the rook. Don't forget that White not only has 2 rooks to Black's 1, he has a
pawn that's as good as queened, since there's nothing that Black can do to stop it! But thanks for the help just the same. Much obliged. Take very good care and have yourself a most joyous day, every day. Cheers!
|Jan-19-06|| ||keypusher: Of course, 21...Nf4, seemingly sealing the f-file, allowed Rubinstein's wonderful idea of 23 g3. But Hromadka can be forgiven for missing that, especially when no one has come up with a better plan.|
|Jan-19-06|| ||Gypsy: <Cogano> White is already winning on material and can fairly easily collect another pawn or two. But I like the rook transfer Rf7-f1-a1 the best. The game could go like this <31.Kxd3 Nxg1> 32.Rc7+ Kb8 33.Rf7 Rd8+ 34.Ke3 Rg8(?) 35.Rf1 Nh3 36.Ra1 Rc8 37.Rxg7 and 38.b7 ...|
|Jan-19-06|| ||Cogano: Hi again <Gypsy>. Thanks for the further analysis. Forgive my ignorance. Why Rf7-f1-a1 as opposed to Ra7-a1 followed by Rfa7? Also, why double the rooks at all? My thin-king was along the lines of leaving a rook on the 7th rank to trap the king, then with the pawn & (if I still have it) the bishop & the other rook, either bring the other rook to the 8th rank with mate or queen & mate. What do you think? I welcome others' comments and analyses too. Thanks again. Take very good care and have yourself a most joyous day, every day. Cheers!|
|Jan-19-06|| ||Gypsy: <Cogano> Yes, 32.Rf7 Kb8 33.Ra1 Nh3 34.b7 is arguably the cleanest way to finnish. My thoughts were stuck on the roundabout way. (And, since it worked resolutely enough, I did not look further.)|
In a position like this one, there of course are numerous ways of going about a win. The real crux is to get into positions like this first.
Going back to a different part of my life, this was something that always bothered me about self-defense classes. I saw much time spent on nuances of how to control an oponent that was already in a great disadvantage. But students were jumping for each other when they practiced throws.
Not a complete analogy to chess combat, true, as there is not realy an equivalent of "jumping" for practice oponent in chess, but our frequent discussions if a check-mate is more accurate because it comes a move earlier reminds me of it.
There is a chess value of figuring the most accurate ways to finnish a won position. But too much time can easily be spent on it.
|Jan-19-06|| ||Cogano: Hi again <Gypsy>. Thanks for the timely
reply and the analysis. Self-defence may not be that similar to chess (in that one is physical while the other is
intellectual in nature). But the analogy is sound just the same. I get what you mean. What I should have made clear is that I've read little into chess theory (openings, endgames etc.) and played fewer games still (clubs are
too expensive for me to join and I've thus far been inusfficiently technologically adept to figure my way around chess playing websites -- no sooner do I join someone for a game, a window pops open to tell me the other person won when we've barely made 3 or 4 moves
and clearly neither of us mated the other or had a good/win-ning position!)
This is why I spend so much time analyzing something. For one thing, I learn. For another, the different winning lines could better apply in different situations. So, in one game (& I mean my games) the best playing line is
the quickest solution to such games as this. Whereas for other games, my winning line could be a roundabout solution for a game like this. Also, not to
drown you in excuses, but the fact is I do obsess about things, as I don't like
loose ends. And truthfully, I didn't suggest that line because I thought it was more efficient than yours. I just could not follow your line. It just didn't go far enough for me to under-stand the reasoning behind that choice of moves. I hope that clarifies things sufficiently. Thanks again for all the help and analysis. Take very good care and have yourself a most joyous day, every day. Cheers!|
|Jan-19-06|| ||Gypsy: <Cogano> I hope I did not sound iritated (for I trully was not). Welcome to this site!! If you combine your knack for detailed analysis with some practical play, you can not help it but become a strong player. And this is the best place to practice analysis anywhere.|
Sensing your situation and your love of detail, I just wanted to alert you to a danger of spending too much time on already decided positions. Like x-training in other sports, it will improve your overall chess; but you probably will improve much quicker if you spend most of your time grapling with positions that evaluate roughly between +1 and -1 of a pawn (using computer engines evaluation scale), where the final result is indeed still up for grabs.
|Jan-19-06|| ||tamar: <Cogano> I guess the real explanation why Rf7 would be better than Kxd3 is that it doesn't give Black any choices. It is mate in 5, nothing Black can do except delay the mechanism to the maximum 5 with desperadoes. |
Kxd3 would string out the game more moves, because Black can eliminate the bishop with Ng1, which supports the b7-Ra8+ mating pattern against Black's Kb8.
I myself hadn't recognized the hidden mating pattern with b7, so there is some value in analysing these already decided sequences.
I would agree with <Gypsy> though that if you really want to improve, look at the positions earlier in the game, and try to discern how far back Rubinstein started to see the final combination.
|Jan-19-06|| ||Cogano: Hi again <Gypsy>. Don't worry. You didn't sound irritated. I got the moral
of your self-defence example and you're right. I merely explained my actions. I
decided matters would be better understood in context, not necessarily excused or justified, just better understood. If I can learn something from a
position from any game or puzzle I come
across and apply it in at least 1 of my games [not that I'm able to play that many as things stand now! :(], then I'll pat myself on the back for a job well done. In the final analysis, as you yourself suggest (at least I think you do), it comes down to how many lessons I'm able to apply in my own games,
not even how lessons I learn. I don't understand what you mean by "positions that evaluate roughly between +1 and -1 of a pawn (using computer engines evaluation scale)". What on earth did you mean by that? Anyway thanks for the
welcome and words of support. With the exception of one post that was at least
somewhat attacking, I've felt welcome here. I've been most impressed by other
users' knowledge of and prowess in chess & their generosity and willing-ness to share that knowledge with me & explain things to me. I only hope I'll be able to apply at least one thing in at least one game I play in the future.
Thank you and to everyone else who's helped me here. You folks have been most kind. Take very good care all and have yourselves a most joyous day, every day. Cheers!
|Jan-19-06|| ||Gypsy: <I don't understand what you mean by "positions that evaluate roughly between +1 and -1 of a pawn (using computer engines evaluation scale)". What on earth did you mean by that?> |
When computers evaluate a position, they assign important features of the game a numerical pawn equivalent. In addition to N=B=3P, R=5P, and Q=9P of the textbooks, computers assign a pawn equivalent value to open lines, rooks on 7-th rank, centralized position of Ns and Bs, passed pawns, bishop pairs, and so on. This is then all tallied up and used to evaluate the position over all. Eg., if White sacrificed two pieces for a rook (-1P), but has compensation in that his extra rook is on 7-th rank and Black king is under some sort of an attack, the overall evaluation may come out something like +0.75. This means that Fritz or Junior thinks that White is de-facto up 3/4 of a pawn.
I do not use computer engines, but these evaluations are a handy way of communicating position assesments. Positive numbers mean that White is up, negative that advantage goes to Black. I think 0.15P is more or less noise. Opening advantage comes out somewhere in the neighborhood of 0.25P. Between 0.5P and 0.75P, White has already obtained a serious advantage. In endgame, such an evaluation usually means that White is fightting for win, Black for a draw. At 1.0P, the stronger side is realy on the verge of winning, but possibly is not quite there yet. Over 1.2P, position is probably objectively won/lost with the best play for both sides. When an evaluation jumps from, say 0.6 to 2.75, you know that Black just blundered a piece or an exchange. And so it goes.
I hope this helps.
|Jan-19-06|| ||Cogano: Hi again <Gypsy>. Thanks for the explanation but I'm sorry to say that I'm still not particularly clear on this points thing. But, it's not that important to me right now. I'm more concerned with learning tactics, strategy & playing the most number of games
possible to gain the maximum amount of experience possible. But thanks for trying just the same. Take very good care and have yourself a most joyous day, every day. Cheers!|
|Jan-19-06|| ||Gypsy: <Cogano> Sorry for not making it clearer. It realy is a simple concept, I just failed to explain it so. Good luck!|
|Jan-20-06|| ||Cogano: <Gypsy> no need to apologize. You gave it your best shot. It's just that some things are more difficult for me to understand than they are for other people, however obvious &/or simple they may appear. Also, I've been known to require more time to fully digest something than other people, at least sometimes. Thanks for the help just the same. Take very good care and have yourself a most joyous day, every day. Cheers!|
|Mar-05-06|| ||MrMojoRisin: This is a very nice game by Rubinstein. As far as I know, whenever Akiba opened with 1.e4 (which was rarely) if he was meet with 1...e5 he would always reply with 2.f4 for the Kings gambit.|
When I first went through this game I was wondering why Akiba went with 28.Qxf2! instead of 28.Kb3. It turns out that 28.Kb3 is a very inferior move to the one played.
Also, I couldn't help but laugh when I saw the final move of 29.Bc5! A simpler win for White would have been 29.Bxg8 but Akiba chose the very artistic Bc5! instead which leaves Black's Rook and Knight both hanging.
And the brilliant 25.Qb6! is reminiscent of Marshall's infamous Qg3! move.
All in all, I would have to say that this game is definitely one of Akiba's best games, probably his second most beautiful game (his most beautiful game being the immortal masterpiece against Rotlewi).
|Mar-05-06|| ||MrMojoRisin: Also, I think that either Lasker or Capablanca (or maybe both of them?) said that this game was a true masterpiece of the Chess board.|
|Jun-05-06|| ||Dres1: Man i really like Rubinstein's great gems like this.. how cool is this game??? i daydream of playing like this|
|Jun-05-06|| ||Maatalkko: Strange that such a strong positional player as Akiba would always go for the King's Gambit. Apparently he thought it was quite playable.|
|Jun-07-06|| ||TheoreticalNovelty: <Strange that such a strong positional player as Akiba would always go for the King's Gambit. Apparently he thought it was quite playable.>|
Yea, Ive always found it strange that when Akiba opened with e4 and was meet by ...e5, he invariably replied with 2.f4
I thought a player like him would prefer something like the Lopez or maybe even the Giouco.
<Man i really like Rubinstein's great gems like this.. how cool is this game??? i daydream of playing like this>
LOL. I wish I could play a game as marvellous as this too. So many moves in this game deserve exclamation marks IMO.
Moves 10, 12, 19, 20, 23, 25, 26, 28, & 29 all deserve an exclamation mark IMO.
Maybe even give 1.e4! as Akiba rarely ventures outside of 1.d4
|Jun-07-06|| ||keypusher: According to the cg.com database Rubinstein had a +9-1=2 record with the King's Gambit -- curiously, his opponents almost invariably declined the pawn.|
He occasionally played other 1. e4 e5 openings -- this is a very fine Ruy Lopez, highly praised by Nimzowitsch in the tournament book.
Rubinstein vs K Treybal, 1929
|Sep-28-06|| ||Archives: Another brilliant game by Rubinstein
19.Kc2! is a very nice move which gives the King the security of the pawn chain and also connects the Rooks.
20.Rf3! which sets up White for a double attack on the f7 and a7 squares.
23.g3! a nice little pawn sac which removes the Knight of the f-file.
25.Qb6! which is just brilliant and devastating.
28.Qxf2! is the simplest and most accurate way to continue.
29.Bc5! which hangs Blacks Rook and Knight.
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·