< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Jan-23-12|| ||morfishine: Checking In
<22...Qg1+ 23.Rxg1 Nf2 mate>
|Jan-23-12|| ||Ratt Boy: So, we all know this as Philidor's Mate.
But I've looked at all 50 Philidor games in the database, and I find no example of this mate in them.
So...when did this mate first appear in a recorded game? Would Morphy have been aware of the pattern, or did he invent (reinvent) it on his own?
|Jan-23-12|| ||Jarocadar: At first sight I thought of Nf2+ (following a known pattern with the Night on g4....)Hmmm there should be a moral in that|
|Jan-23-12|| ||zb2cr: Monday. A Queen sacrifice leading to a standard smothered mate. 22. ... Qg1+; 23. Rxg1, Nf2#. Those are the facts, ma'am.|
|Jan-23-12|| ||Patriot: I'll go with <morfishine>'s response. :-)|
|Jan-23-12|| ||LIFE Master AJ: 22...Qg1#! (Mate next move.)|
|Jan-23-12|| ||agb2002: Yet another example of smothered mate.|
|Jan-23-12|| ||Penguincw: Saw the game last year (as in 2011) and saw the solution right away.|
|Jan-23-12|| ||k.khalil: I wonder how long it took white to recover from this indignity. oh dear!|
|Jan-23-12|| ||Marmot PFL: As great as Morphy was, honesty forces one to say that most of his opponents were extremely weak (Anderssen and a few others excepted). 16 c4? is a blunder that it's hard to see a modern master playing.|
|Jan-23-12|| ||numbersguy70: It is an unfortunate residual that many of Morphy's beautiful combination examples come from weaker opponents and give critics ammunition. Nevertheless, his success against strong opponents and in blindfold simuls justify his reputation, and I would rather see insightful examples produced by a weak opponent than not see them at all.|
|Jan-23-12|| ||thomastonk: <Marmot PFL: Anderssen and a few others excepted> There were not so many fine players those days, and Morphy had won convincingly against all of them - except those, who decided not to play with him, e.g. Staunton, who was clearly out of practice. You can verify this by considering different historical rating systems.|
|Jan-23-12|| ||twin phoenix: mmmm Smothered!!! it's so great to have things smothered... smothered in jelly, smothered in love. is good. BEING smothered however is NEVER good. ask McConnell.|
certainly white went wrong with 13.d4?! Letting Black get his knight to 13.--,N-e4!. however, it looks like white is enjoying the advantage until this mistake. white should just play the calm 13. n-d2!? i guess.
|Jan-23-12|| ||benjinathan: My favourite mate- I would love to get one in a game.|
|Jan-23-12|| ||squaresquat: I'm fascinated by the Kieseritzky.Is it
a fighting phalanx or a weak chain? It can be both.Morphy won with it, Fischer lost with it.
|Jan-23-12|| ||kevin86: Paul Morphy+Monday puzzle+smothered mate=answered puzzle in one second.|
simplicity may be the greatest elegance.
|Jan-23-12|| ||Once: <Ratt Boy> This is what Wikipedia has to say...|
"This technique is so common as to have its own name: Philidor's Mate or Philidor's Legacy (after François-André Danican Philidor). This is something of a misnomer, however, as it is first described in Luis Ramirez Lucena's 1497 text on chess, Repetición de Amores e Arte de Axedrez, which predates Philidor by several hundred years."
Don't know when it was first played in a game, but it seems as if it was being written about in 1497.
|Jan-23-12|| ||jackpawn: Very easy if you know the pattern. I've been able to play Philidor's mate a few times in speed games, but never got to in a tournament games.|
|Jan-23-12|| ||chrisowen: In brave it say feint qg1+ rxg1 nf2 face in it the music hiking so whats like it your ultimate goal ma mater <morfishine>? Aviation baby it low in qg1 in good ol days it nf2 empties rich in life yore d3 quite sub par old heat James shucks.|
|Jan-23-12|| ||Ratt Boy: <Once>, thank you.
How could I have neglected to check Teh Great Wiki? D'oh.
|Jan-23-12|| ||bischopper: how allow sacrificy the queen only if fallow (next) the mate|
|Jan-23-12|| ||fetonzio: philidor may never have actually played this mate, but he is a very famous analyst, so maybe he got around to it in one of his studies.|
|Jan-23-12|| ||Nullifidian: Like Jackpawn, I've never been able to play this in tournament games, but I have used the threat of mate to win material, which is just as satisfying. :-)|
22... g1+ 23. xg1 f2#
|Jan-23-12|| ||BLS: Okay, having looked at this position for 3 or 4 hours, it seems that Qg1+ wins.|
TIME TO CHECK.
I've gotten out the comp and am checking.
Gee, I was right.
|Jan-23-12|| ||stst: Q-sac, again & again,
23RxQ (forced) Nf2#
Hope to have a Paul Morphy again to ravel with the top seeds today!!
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