< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Jul-11-05|| ||The beginner: I thought it was 8 Qa4+ it also wins.
I dont know wich is better. It dosent matter much since black lose in both lines, but black could have done better with Kf8.
|Jul-11-05|| ||SamuelS: <The beginner>, how does 8. Qa4+ win after 8...Nc6?|
|Jul-11-05|| ||aginis: <Counterpoint> 7.Bxf7+ Kxf7 8.Nxe5+ dxe5 9.fxe5+ Ke8 10.Qxg4 is 3 pawns for a piece. As a professional is able to use his pieces to greater effect than an amature this is not worthwhile.|
|Jul-11-05|| ||The beginner: <SamuelS>
8 Qa4+ ..Nc6
I dont think black can escape here. f7 is very weak.
|Jul-11-05|| ||mymt: 8.Qa4+ c6 is that any better?|
|Jul-11-05|| ||paul dorion: <counterpoint> You are right , 7...NxB is better than dxe5 , but White is still winning a pawn for nothing (on e5 or d6) after 8 Qa4+ and 9 Qxc4|
|Jul-11-05|| ||aw1988: I looked for a mate with Nxe5, but couldn't find it, so chose Bxf7+.|
|Jul-11-05|| ||DexterGordon: <mymt>, after 8.Qa4+ c6, 9.Bxf7+ followed by 10.Nxe5 looks pretty strong for White.|
|Jul-11-05|| ||JeffCaruso: After 8 Bxf7+ Kxf7 9 Nxe5+, 9 ... Ke8 looks bad for Black but where's the win? Not 10 Qa4+ Bd7 11 Qxa5 Nf6, nor 10 Qxg4 Bf6. Or does 2 pawns count as a win?|
|Jul-11-05|| ||patzer2: Here is a little analysis with Fritz 8 and the Opening Explorer:|
<1. e4 e5 2. f4 d6?!> This less-than-best move passes up the opportunity to gain the advantage as Black with the standard 2...exf4 3. Nf3 g4 . In the Opening Explorer sample of games, White wins over 72% after the passive 2...d6?!. However, it may not be as bad as it's record might suggest, as Black's draw, for example, in T Schmitt vs S S Schmidt, 1997 seems to indicate Black may be able to hold the position with careful play. <3. Nf3 Bg4 4. Bc4 Be7 5. O-O Nc6 6. c3?!> This allows Black to equalize. Better for White here is 6. Bxf7+! Kxf7
7. Ng5+ Bxg5 8. fxg5+ Kg6 9. Qxg4 . < 6... Na5?> This is a mistake. Better is 6... Nf6 = leading to equality. <7. fxe5?!> This dubious move overlooks a win. Instead, White should play 7. Bxf7+ Kxf7 8. Ng5+ Bxg5 9. fxg5+ Kg6 10. Qxg4 with decisive advantage. <7... dxe5??> This is the decisive blunder for Black. Black can hold the position with only a small White advantage after 7... Nxc4
8. Qa4+ c6 9. Qxc4 Be6 10. Qd4 Qb6 <8. Bxf7+! Kxf7> If 8... Kf8, White's best winning shot is 9. Bxg8! (However, a fun winning alternative is 9. Be6! Bxe6 10. Ng5+ Ke8 11. Nxe6 Qd6 12. Nxg7+ Kd8 13. b4 Nc4 14. d3 Nb6 15. Nf5 Qe6 16. Be3 Nf6 17. Nd2 Rg8 18. Nf3 Nfd5 19. Qb3 Nf4 20. Qxe6 Nxe6 21. Nxe7 Kxe7 22. Nxe5 ) 9... Kxg8 10. b4 Nc4 11. d3 a5 (11... Nb6 12. Qb3+ Nd5 13.
exd5 ) 12. dxc4 axb4 13. cxb4 Bxb4 14. Qb3 Bc5+ 15. Be3 Qd6 16. Bxc5 Qxc5+
17. Kh1 b6 18. Qb5 Qxb5 19. cxb5 Bxf3 20. Rxf3 h6 21. Nc3 . <9. Nxe5+!> A mistake letting Black back in the game is 9.Ng5+?! Ke8 10. Qxg4 Bxg5 11. d4 Bxc1 12. Qxg7 Be3+ 13. Kh1 Qe7 14. Qxh8 Kd7
15. Rf5 exd4 16. cxd4 Re8 17. Rd5+ Kc8 =. <9... Ke6 10. Qxg4+ Kxe5> Black can avoid mate only at the cost of losing the Queen with 10... Kd6
11. Nf7+ Kc5 12. Nxd8 . <11. Qf5+ Kd6 12. Qd5# 1-0>
|Jul-11-05|| ||riqhi: I agree with <JeffCaruso>
8. Bxf7+ Kf8
9. Be6 Bxf3
yes, white is much better, but I think it is a bit difficult for Monday.
|Jul-11-05|| ||paul dorion: What about 5 dxe5 dxe5 6 Bxf7 Kxf7
7 Nxe5 Ke6 8 Qxg4 Kxe5 9 Qf5+ Kd4 10 d3
How is black stopping 11 c3 mate. Other options leaves White at least a pawn up.
|Jul-11-05|| ||Shokwave: Bxf7+ is an old chestnut that most of us have probably first fallen prey to, then delivered unto others.|
|Jul-11-05|| ||Eric Xanthus: An odd Monday. The benefit of the bishop sac is somewhat intangible unless you calculate a longer continuation than is normal for a Monday. Mondays are usually instant gratification, two- or three-move combinations. Here you either calculate 5 moves or decide that "exposed king" is worth the bishop.|
|Jul-11-05|| ||MiCrooks: No, benefit it immediate...you win a pawn for nothing and expose the King or you immediately get your piece back at least TWO pawns up. Typical Monday fare.|
|Jul-11-05|| ||patzer2: <paul dorion> Did you mean 5. fxe5 dxe5? (Relatively better for Black is 5...Nc6 6. 0-0 ) 6. Bxf7+ ? If so, then 5. fxe5 Nc6 , with only a slight White advantage, might be safe enough for Black.|
|Jul-11-05|| ||Knight13: A tricky monday puzzle.|
|Jul-11-05|| ||snowie1: I didn't realize this trick was that old, now of it's French origin.
It could be called the Versailles Expose` or Chamois shimmey. This is a
favorite line by Little Chesspartner!|
|Jul-11-05|| ||Eric Xanthus: <MiCrooks>, a pawn, exposed king, and initiative is not normal fare for a Monday. Don't confuse the relative ease of the puzzle--I think we all got it--with the relative ease assigned to the day of the week. "Typical Monday fare" is immediate mate or heavy loss of material (rook, queen, whatever). To that extent I find it to be a curious Monday puzzle.|
|Jul-11-05|| ||Rank Amateur: <you have to wonder if 8.Nxe5 is even better. Answer: no > I agree with that, but if I was black I'd play 8... Bxd1. Does it help black to play 8...Bc5+ first?|
|Jul-11-05|| ||SDSUPinoy: it is definately not a play and win with perfect play|
|Jul-11-05|| ||Nomen Nescio: It is the f7 sac which makes KG interesting.|
|Jul-11-05|| ||Calli: Anybody have a first name for Monsieur Chamouillet? |
Seen a few games by him but never a full name. He was a regular at the Café de la Régence.
|Jul-11-05|| ||Halldor: Perfect setup for an attack on f7!|
|Jul-12-05|| ||Richard Taylor: Bf7+ is almost automatic that or Ne5 -but B:f7+ folowed by the double check etc only needs a cursory analysis it clearly wins by inspection - an important type of combination tough|
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