< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Feb-12-06|| ||TopaLove: I tried 24 ... ♗d5 using fritz and it does not work.|
|Feb-12-06|| ||guidomiguel: Alot of ppl say they got it, I got the first 5 moves for white. But who would really play this OTB? God knows i couldnt hehe|
|Feb-12-06|| ||OBIT: Well, guidom, if you see the combo, naturally you play it. The difference in OTB is that no sign flashes in big red letters that say "YOU HAVE A WINNING COMBINATION HERE", so its much harder in OTB.|
Seriously, going back to the position after 21. Kh2: if I had this position in OTB, I'd be thinking I have a slight advantage, but aside from that not much is happening. So, I'd be playing something purely positional, like 21...Rab8 or 21...f5, never considering 21...Ne3! Seeing this combination beforehand really takes some imagination.
|Feb-12-06|| ||al wazir: I saw black's first six moves. I would not have played the line in a game; Black has a far better position and should be able to win just by squeezing white. I don't usually sacrifice two pieces for a combination that leads to mate in ten moves because I can't see that far ahead. Who was this Gutman anyway, and how did he get Tarrasch in such a fix?|
What if white doesn't accept the sac: 23. Rg1. I suppose black plays 23...Bxh3. If 24. Kxh3, then what? If 24...Qh6+ then 24. Kxg2. If instead black plays 23...e3, white has 24. Rxg2.
|Feb-12-06|| ||DexterGordon: <al wazir>, perhaps if 23. Rg1 Black can just take his pawn and go home with 23...Nh4. 24...Nf3 is coming, and Black can still attack on the K-side.|
|Feb-12-06|| ||Fezzik: I vaguely remembered the position as a classic two-piece sac, so all I had to do was figure out how the rest fit into place. I failed. I thought that White could avoid 25.Kxh3 and play 25.Rg1 but as someone else pointed out, the Rook lift still works for Black. |
I'm pretty sure Tarrasch saw the possibility of Nxg2 (after all, that was the point of ...Ne3), but he missed the combination too!
This was a good one, especially considering people are saying their computers didn't get it.
|Feb-12-06|| ||LIFE Master AJ: Wow. Not only did I get today's puzzle, I guessed the first move in about 15 seconds ... it took me less than three minutes to work out all the associated lines. |
I only say this because this is the first Sunday puzzle that I got 100% correct in a long time.
Is this game in Tarrasch's book of 300 games? (I have that one, I worked my way through the whole thing as a teenager.)
|Feb-12-06|| ||RandyM450: I'm probably not seeing something obvious, but does 31.Kf3 work out better for white?|
|Feb-12-06|| ||doglikegroove: WARNING: The third sign of the Apocalypse is upon. I got a Friday, Saturday, an d now a Sunday. Granted, I had to break out a board, and the Olympics probably came and went, but still...|
Ah, lets not panic just yet; I'll probably throw Monday in the toilet.
I will say this: I think the kibitzing around here is just as helpful as the puzzle itself. Nice to be around superior minds. Thanks, guys.
|Feb-12-06|| ||WannaBe: <doglikegroove: WARNING: The third sign of the Apocalypse is upon. I got a ...> I'm selling all of my posessions and moving to the mountains...|
|Feb-12-06|| ||patzer2: Here's a look with the Opening Explorer and Fritz 8:|
<1. e4 e5 2. f4 d5>
this enters the King's Gambit Declined, Falkbeer Counter Gambit (C31). <3.exd5 e4 4. Bb5+> More often played are 4. d3 as in Bronstein vs Szabo, 1949 or 4. Nc3 as in Keres vs Lilienthal, 1941. <4...c6 5. dxc6 Nxc6> An alternative worth considering is 5...bxc6 as in Chigorin vs Marshall, 1905. <6. d4>
Also seen are 6. d3 as in Fischer vs C Garcia-Palermo, 1971
and 6. Ne2 as in Tarrasch vs Pribulsky, 1880. <6...Nf6> Another playable alternative is 6...Qa5+ as in Charousek vs Maroczy, 1895. <7. Nc3 Qb6>Two other equalizing alternatives per Fritz 8 are 7...Bb4= and 7...Bg4=. <8.
Nge2 Bb4 9. O-O O-O 10. Bc4 Bg4 11. Be3 Na5 12. Bb3 Bxc3 13. bxc3 Qb5 14. Re1
Nc4 15. Bc1 Nd5 16. h3 Be6 17. a4 Qc6 18. a5 b5 19. Bxc4 bxc4 20. Ba3 Rfe8 21.
Kh2 Ne3 22. Qc1 Nxg2!!>
Black initiates a classic demolition of pawn structure combination. <23. Kxg2 e3+!> This follow-up is essential, as other moves turn the tables and cause Black to lose. <24. Kg3 Bxh3 25. Kxh3>
Declining the second piece offer does White no good, as the following lines indicate:
25.Rg1 Re6 26. f5 Bxf5 27. d5 Qxd5 28. Nf4 Qe5 29. Rf1 Rd8 30. Kf3 e2 31. Nxe2 Qxe2+ 32. Kg3 Rg6+ 33. Kh4 Qg4#;
25. Rh1 Qg2+ 26. Kh4 Qg4#;
25. d5 Qxd5 26. Kxh3 Qf3+ 27. Ng3 Re6 ;
25. Kh4 Qf3 26. Rg1 Re6 27. Qe1 (27. Be7 Rh6+ 28. Kg5 Rh5#) 27... Rh6+ 28. Kg5 f6#.
<25... Qf3+ 26. Ng3 Re6 27. Be7 Rh6+ 28. Bh4
Qxf4 29. Qxe3> Putting up more resistance, but still losing is 29. Rxe3 Qxh4+ 30. Kg2 Qh2+ 31. Kf1 Rg6! 32. Rf3 Re8 33. Qf4 Rf6 34. Nf5 Qh1+ 35. Kf2 Qxa1 . <29... Qxh4+ 30. Kg2 Qh2+ 31. Kf1>
Still caught in Black's mating web is 31. Kf3 Rf6+ 32. Kg4 h5+ 33. Nxh5 Rg6+ 34. Kf3 Qxh5+ 35. Kf2 Qh2+ 36. Kf3 Qg2+ 37. Kf4 Rf6+ 38. Ke5 Re8#. <31... Rf6+ 0-1>
|Feb-12-06|| ||Chesspatch: it's not seeing the combo that intrigues me, but the act of slowly nudging into that position.|
|Feb-12-06|| ||kevin86: The winner's name is Gutman=Did he get the Maltese Falcon as a prize? (The character in said movie was Sydney Greenstreet-a real gut-man at 300 lbs. plus.)|
|Feb-12-06|| ||GoldenKnight: This one is fairly easy to divine once it is seen that e3+ followed by Black forcing his Q to f3 completely locks out White's Q (and the rest of the Q-side pieces with it) from helping in the defense (until it is too late). Black then has a crushing attack. That's all I needed to see. Got this one almost instantly.|
Tal wrote in his book on Attack that with certain sacrifices leading to certain types of positions (he didn't really specify, and only gave one example) there is no need to calculate all the way. I think this is one of those types of positions. In fact, I find that is the case with many, though by no means all, of these puzzles.
|Feb-12-06|| ||hayton3: <GoldenKnight> Indeed once you see e3+ which shouldn't take more than a few seconds you wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice the knight in a blitz game (especially as it is attacked) knowing that the pressure is on your opponent to calculate precisely. No need to work it all out.|
|Feb-13-06|| ||LIFE Master AJ: <patzer2>
Send me an e-mail please, I have a question to ask you.
|Oct-30-10|| ||LIFE Master AJ: Who the heck was Gutman, anyway?|
|Oct-30-10|| ||Phony Benoni: There doesn't seem to be much information about him. A Gutman is hard to find.|
|Oct-31-10|| ||LIFE Master AJ: I can't find anything about this guy.|
|Oct-31-10|| ||LIFE Master AJ: I am beginning to wonder if this game is not a fake ...|
|Oct-31-10|| ||Phony Benoni: <Life Master AJ> You are quite correct; this game is not a fake. It was originally published in the <Deutsche Schachzeitung> for May 1895, p. 144:|
It is described as "played recently at the Nüremberg Chess Club" with four players consulting against Dr. Tarrasch: <Ph. Guttmann, Wilhelm Hahn, Max Kuerschner, and Regensburger;. They appear to have been Nüremberg amateurs of no great standing, but consultants can get lucky sometimes. Three of them have games against Tarrasch in the database.
However, our copy of the score seems to be incorrect. After <28...Qxf4>:
click for larger view
The <Deutsche Schachzeitung> gives the move <29.Rxe3> (with the comment that White has nothing better), and the finish <29...Qxh4+ 30.Kg2 Qh2+ 31.Kf1 Rg6>
click for larger view
And white resigns as he must lose the knight (32.Ne2 Qh1+ 33.Kf2 Rg2+ 34.Kf3 Qh3+ 35.Ke4 Qe6+ 36.Kf4 g5+ 37.Kf3 Qg4#.) However, 29.Rxe3 is still clearly superior to 29.Qxe3, so it's my guess that Tarrasch actually played it.
I suspect that the line beginning 29.Qxe3 showed up later as a variation and got grafted into the game as the original continuation. These things have been known to happen.
Oh, by the way, note that it's not just a mistake in Black's last move. If he played 31...Rg6 in the line we have here, White mates after 32.Qe8+.
|Oct-31-10|| ||LIFE Master AJ: <And white resigns as he must lose the knight (32.Ne2 Qh1+ 33.Kf2 Rg2+ 34.Kf3 Qh3+ 35.Ke4 Qe6+ 36.Kf4 g5+ 37.Kf3 Qg4#.) However, 29.Rxe3 is still clearly superior to 29.Qxe3, so it's my guess that Tarrasch actually played it. |
I suspect that the line beginning 29.Qxe3 showed up later as a variation and got grafted into the game as the original continuation. These things have been known to happen.>
That's what I was thinking ...
|Oct-31-10|| ||LIFE Master AJ: Just common sense.
If Gutman was really that great a player, we would have at least a few more examples of his shining brilliance ... ... ...
|Oct-31-10|| ||Phony Benoni: Just one more contemporary reference:
I do love Google Books!
|Oct-31-10|| ||LIFE Master AJ: Dude. This was a CONSULTATION game.
Your link clearly shows that.
Gutman might have been a fish.
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