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Emanuel Lasker vs Geza Maroczy
unknown cg (1902)
King's Gambit: Accepted. Kieseritsky Gambit Rice Gambit (C39)  ·  1-0


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Given 43 times; par: 24 [what's this?]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Aug-23-03  ughaibu: Is black really lost here?
Aug-23-03  Kaspablanca: ughaibu, how black can avoid Qe7#?. Of course black is lost.
Aug-23-03  Jonber: 23...Kd7 avoids Qe7#. But Black is still lost.
Aug-24-03  ughaibu: Not just Kd7, black could also try c5 though neither looks convincing how does white win after Kd7? I expect white will win but I would expect that before the game began.
Aug-24-03  Shadout Mapes: 23...Kd7 24.dxe6+ fxe6 25.Qe7 Kc8 26.Qxe6+ Nd7 27.Rxg1 Qxg1 28.Bg4 looks convincing.
Aug-24-03  ughaibu: I was thinking of answering 24.dxe6 with Kc7.
Aug-24-03  Jonber: 23…Kd7 24.dxe6+?! looks premature to me. Better to stay calm and play the simple 24.Rxg1 first, after which Black has several choices, all of which is bad:

24...Qxe2+ 25.Rxe2 cxd5 26.Qe7+ Kc8 27.Bf4 Nd7 28.Qd6 Kd8 29.Qc7+ Ke8 30.Qxb7 Rd8

24...Qf2 25.dxe6+ fxe6 26.Rxe6 Kc8 27.Qd6 Qf8 28.Re7 Qxe7 29.Bg4+

24...Qxh3 25.Qe7+ Kc8 26.Rxe6 fxe6 27.Bf4 Nd7 28.dxe6 Qxe6 29.Qxe6

24...Qh2 25.dxe6+ fxe6 26.Rxe6 Kc8 27.Qd6

But, by all means, 24.dxe6+ directly is also sufficient to win.

Aug-24-03  Shadout Mapes: I just ran it through Fritz and it says 23...Kd7 loses to 24.Rxg1 Qxg1 25.Rxe6! It recommends 23...Qxd4+ first, but it gives white a solid 9 points.
Aug-24-03  ughaibu: Shadout Mapes and Jonber I love very much from my heart, Fritz can go to the Fischer thread and die for all I care.
Apr-12-13  ughaibu: I wonder if 15.Qa3 would've been the choice of many players? Or is it a move that typifies Lasker?
Apr-12-13  RookFile: The idea of Qa3 probably wouldn't even occur to most. Surely most folks look at the position and list out candidate moves like:

A) 15. dxc6
B) 15. Rxe5+
C) 15. dxe5
D) 15. Kf1
E) 15. Bxf4

What kind of a mind, indeed, looks at the position and goes for 15. Qa3?

Apr-12-13  RookFile: He also played your favorite move in this game:

Lasker vs Euwe, 1923

Apr-12-13  ughaibu: In that game Qa3 is a natural move, I reckon. On the other hand, that's a particularly difficult game in which to choose a favourite move. Maybe 50.Kg6 would be my choice.
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <ughaibu>
Lasker may have reasoned that 15...b5 is a threat, so White has to consider moving queen or bishop, or 15. dxc6. Bishop moves would be mere retreat, while 15. dxc6 Nxc6 aids Black's development.

In this position, I would probably have opted for 15. dxc6 Nxc6 16. dxe5, to avoid spending a move on defense. But 15. Qa3 would also come up for consideration.

After 15. Qa3, how about <15...Ne3> 16. Bxe3 fxe3 17. dxe5 Bg4. I'm not sure how White should handle that.

Apr-12-13  ughaibu: How about 18.Rxe3 Bxf3, 19.Rxf3 Qh2, 20.Kf1 Qh1, 21.Ke2 Qxa1, 22.dxc6?
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <ughaibu>
15. Qa3 Ne3 16. Bxe3 fxe3 17. dxe5 Bg4 <18. Rxe3> and then why not simply 18...Qxe3+?
Apr-12-13  ughaibu: Ooops! If you've got a collection for daft kibitzes that you didn't post, I recommend the above.
Apr-12-13  ughaibu: How about 18.Qd6?
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: 15. Qa3 Ne3 16. Bxe3 fxe3 17. dxe5 Bg4 18. Qd6 Qh5
Apr-12-13  ughaibu: Then white can bring the queen to f6 protecting f3 with tempo. Does that help?
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <ughaibu>
Thanks for posting this very interesting question.

After 15. Qa3 Ne3 16. Bxe3 fxe3 17. dxe5 Bg4 18. Qd6 Qh5 19. Qf6, Black can try <19...Bxf3>

click for larger view

and then 20. Qxh8+ Kd7 21. e6+ Kc7 22. d6+ Kb6 23. Qd8+ Kc5, after which I can't find any good follow-up for White.

Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: If the above line is right, I think it has to go (from diagram above) 20. Qxf3 Qxf3 21. gxf3 h5 22. Kg2 h4 23. Rxe3 cxd5 24. Bxd5 Nc6 25. f4. It seems White can stop the passers and is probably fine.

click for larger view

Apr-13-13  ughaibu: Those look fine to me, so maybe black should answer 19.Qf6 with Rf8. Accordingly, instead of Qf6, how about reverting to the Rxe3 line proposed earlier?
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <ughaibu>
At first glance, in the line above after 19. Qf6 Rf8 <20. d6> looks like a killer.
Apr-14-13  ughaibu: This is a thoroughly embarrassing thread. Thank you.
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