< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 4 ·
|Mar-25-10|| ||dzechiel: Black to move (15...?). Black is up a pawn. "Medium."|
Both kings hang in the balance! Once again we see the theme that started on Monday with a piece that is pinned on the diagonal being attacked by a rook. In this case black gets the ball rolling with
White must interpose (as the queen cannot be captured and the king has nowhere to run). Either the rook or the queen will need to move to f3. Let's look at the rook first.
16 Rf3 Rf8
Since the rook is pinned, black gangs up on it. The only way to save the rook now is
17 Kg2 Rxf3
Going ahead by a rook. White can try to recapture with
18...h1=Q+ 19 Kxh1 Qxf3+ 20 Kg1 Bh4
and the knight goes as well (assuming that white hasn't already resigned). But, I hear you say, "What if the queen interposed instead?" OK, let's look (the lines are similar).
16 Qf3 Rf8
Does this look familiar?
17 Qxd5 Rxf1+ 18 Kg2 h1=Q+ 19 Kxg3 Qxd5
and once again white comes out with the short end of the stick.
Time to check and see how this ended.
|Mar-25-10|| ||OBIT: Clearly, if Black has a good line it better happen fast. And, with yesterday's position still fresh in my mind, this solution was spotted quickly:|
Let's start with the most obvious try, 15...Qd5+. If White plays 16. Qf3, oh yeah, there was that trick from yesterday: 16...Rf8! Then after 17. Qxd5 Rxf1+ 18. Kg2 h1=Q+ 19. Kxg3 Qxd5 and wins.
After 15...Qd5+, White's only other move is 16. Rf3. Then 16...Rf8 17. Kg2 Rxf3 18. Qxf3 Qxf3+ 19. Kxf3 h1=Q+ wins. The last try for White looks like a knight move instead of 17. Kg2; however, 17. Ng1 is met by 17...hxg1+, while after 17. Ng5 I think Black can fearlessly play 17...Kxg5 18. d4+ Kg6
|Mar-25-10|| ||OBIT: Looking at my OTB analysis, I think I got the 16. Qf3 lines, which were the most important ones to get right. After 16. Rf3 Rf8 17. Ng5 Kxg5 18. d4+, the right move has to be 18...Kh5, not 18...Kg6, although I'm sure I'd change to 18...Kh5 if the game got to this position.|
|Mar-25-10|| ||zooter: For sometime, I was thinking it was white to play and then saw that 15.Qg4+ would win easily. I didn't analyze this fully as I was looking at more violent sacrifices by white|
Then sanity returned when I saw it was black to play
15...Qd4+ and there are only 2 options
Option a) 16.Qf3 Rf1 and black wins the queen as 17.Qxd4 Rxf1#
Option b) 16.Rf3 Rf1 and now white must give up a piece 17.Ng1 hxg1=Q+ 18.Kxg1 Qxf3 winning
Time to check
|Mar-25-10|| ||zooter: Ok, 15...Qd4+ 16.Qf3 Rf1 17.Qxd5 Rxf1 is not mate as the game continuation shows....I must say I missed it though go the idea right|
|Mar-25-10|| ||ChocolateCakeLover: Puzzle of the day: March 25, 2010
Black to play: 15. ...?
15. ...d5+ should do
17.xd5 it is hard to suggest anything better, any move will lose the queen
17. ...xf1+ 18.g2 h1= 19.xg3 xd5
I'm having a headache so I made it short.
|Mar-25-10|| ||ChocolateCakeLover: Hello <zooter>, I assume you are flipping the board. Cheers!|
|Mar-25-10|| ||zooter: <ChocolateCakeLover: Hello <zooter>, I assume you are flipping the board. Cheers!>|
Nope, I don't flip the board. In fact the only diagram I look at is the homepage before deciding on the moves. Does it help flipping the board?
I'm actually a little skeptical about clicking the link since the comments, kibitzes or the moves might give the answer away even if I try to avoid it
|Mar-25-10|| ||VincentL: After studying this for a minute or two, it is clear that black must start 15... Qd5+ and follow this with 16......Rf8 whether white blocks the check with the Q or the R.|
On 16. Rf3 we have 16.... Rf8 and now to prevent 17.... Rf3 18. Qxf3 Qxf3 mate white must play 17. Ng1 or 17. Kg2.
After 17. Ng1 black continues 17... hxg1 = Q and emerges at least a R and N up.
After 17. Kg2 Qxf3+ 18. Qxf3 Rxf3 19. Kxf3 h1=Q+.
On 15. Qf3 Rf8 16. Qxd5 Rxf1+ 17. Kg2 h1=Q+
Timt to check.
|Mar-25-10|| ||Once: Ditto.|
|Mar-25-10|| ||ChocolateCakeLover: Yes, it helps for me. The reason I said that because you made 15. ...Qd5+ to 15. ...Qd4+ and Rf8 to Rf1 -->my common typos when I flip the board.|
|Mar-25-10|| ||Nostrils: Crosspin week|
|Mar-25-10|| ||PopcornMonkey: haha... i didn't read "black to move" and solved for white following the line
16 Qg4+ Kh6 17 d3+(B) g5 18 Rf6+ wins the Queen.
...amazing what a tempo can do
|Mar-25-10|| ||gofer: gofer: White is threatening 16 Qg4+ Kh6 17 d4+ g5 18 Bxg5+ Kg7/Kg6 19 Bc1+ Qg5 20 Qxg5#, so whatever black does it is going to be rather good! Well obviously the a8-h1 is the way to kill white and follow up with a pin on the f file that forces white to lose queen or rook. Isn't this the same as earlier this week? Well I suppose its a theme, but not quite as tough as I would expect a normal Thursday to be...
15 ... Qd5+
Option 1 (block mate with the rook)
16 Rf3 Rf8
17 d4/Ba3 Rxf3 (threatening Rf1#) which is winning
17 Kg2 Rxf3 18 Qxf3 h1=Q+ 19 Kxh8 Qxf3+ winning
Option 2 (block mate with the queen)
16 Qf3 Rf8
17 Qxd5 Rxf1+ 18 Kg2 h1=Q+ 19 Kxg3 Qxd5 winning
17 Ba3/d4 Rxf3 (threatening Rf1#) which is winning
17 Kg2 Rxf3 18 Ba3/d4 Rf2+ (Qxf3 h1=Q+ 19 Kxh8 Qxf3+ winning) 19 Kxg3 Qg2+ 20 Kh4 h1=Q 21 Qxh1 Qxh1 22 Bb2 Rf4+ 23 Kg3 Rf3+ 24 Kg4/Kh4 Qxh3#
Time to check...
|Mar-25-10|| ||agb2002: Black is one pawn ahead. White threatens 16.Qg4+ Kh6 17.d4+ g5 18.Bxg5+ Kg6(7) 19.Be7+ Kh6 20.Rf6#.|
The risky position of the white king suggests 15... Qd5+:
A) 16.Qf3 Rf8
A.1) 17.Qxd5 Rxf1+ 18.Kg2 h1=Q+ 19.Kxg3 Qxd5 20.Nf4+ Rxf4 - + [Q+N vs B].
A.2) 17.Qg2 Rxf1+ 18.Ng1 Rxg1#.
A.3) 17.c4 Rxf3 18.cxd5 Rxf1+ 19.Kg2 h1=Q+ 20.Kxg3 Rf3+ 21.Kg(h)4 Qxh3#.
B) 16.Rf3 Rf8
B.1) 17.Kg2 (17.Nf4+ Rxf4) Rxf3 18.Qxf3 h1=Q+ winning.
B.2) 17.Ng1 hxg1=Q+ 18.Kxg1 Rxf3 - + [R+N].
|Mar-25-10|| ||goodevans: A nice Thursday puzzle. I started off with two candidates, ... Qd5+ and ... Rf8+, but I was getting nowhere for a couple of minutes until I thought of combining them. That was one of those epiphany moments when you know you've stumbled on the right idea.|
|Mar-25-10|| ||David2009: Thursday 25/03/2010 puzzle NN vs W Donisthorpe, 1980 Black 15...?|
Inspired no doubt by lessons from his great match against Gioachino Greco (+0 =0 -78), NN is playing with more fire
and energy than usual. Unfortunately he still loses: 15...Qd5+ and if 16 Qf3 Rf8 17 Qxd5 Rxf1+ etc. Tougher is 16 Rf3
Rf8 17 Ng5 Kxg5 18 d4+ and if 18...Kg6? 19 Qd3+ with counter-chances, but 18...Kh5 wraps it up.
I would guess this started as a Kings Gambit Cunningham defence gone dreadfully wrong for White. Time to
Yes. <dzechiel> gives more on the Rf3 defence. The game date is evidently a misprint (presumably 1890?).
<(born Mar-24-1847, died Jan-30-1914) United Kingdom>. For a better conduct of the attack, see I Rice vs W Donisthorpe, 1892 (1-0)
|Mar-25-10|| ||Andrijadj: this should have been tuesday,not thursday...|
|Mar-25-10|| ||whiteshark: crosspinning with 15...Qd5+ and 16...Rf8.|
|Mar-25-10|| ||SgtPepper: This week is way too easy. Always look for a piece sacrifice that is connected with crating deadly threats to an enemy's king.|
|Mar-25-10|| ||wasspwot: what an exceptionally ugly unappealing game.
I managed to get this problem solved but only because I failed yesterday and it's essentially the same thing.
I suppose this is how we learn.
But really, what a dispiriting game, chess shouldn't be played like this.
|Mar-25-10|| ||zb2cr: Found this one in fairly short order. Comments I would like to have made have already been written by <dzechiel>, <OBIT>, <zooter>, <ChocolateCakeLover>, <VincentL>, <gofer>, <agb2002>, <David2009>, and <goodevans>.|
|Mar-25-10|| ||remolino: 15...Qd5+ and Black wins with 16...Rf8 regardless of which piece White uses to block the diagonal|
|Mar-25-10|| ||A Karpov Fan: got it|
|Mar-25-10|| ||patzer2: For today's Thursday puzzle solution, 15...Qd5+! forces the interposition of the White Queen or Rook to allow a key pin, which facilitates the promotion of a passed pawn with check to skewer the King and win decisive material.|
See <tpstar>'s 2006 comment for Black's winning line after 16. Rf3 Rf8 .
P.S.: I enjoyed <aw1988>'s posts, and I have no reason to doubt he lost a game that went this way.
However, there is an obvious inconsistency between the date of the game given as 1980 and the death of the winner in 1914. Click on Wordsworth Donisthorpe to see "WORDSWORTH DONISTHORPE
(born Mar-24-1847, died Jan-30-1914) United Kingdom."
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