< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 11 OF 13 ·
|Jan-12-10|| ||maxi: I have a suspicion that the 1972 Fischer would have not for a minute believed that 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf 3.Cf3 d6 refutes either this variation of the King's Gambit nor the KG itself.|
|Jan-12-10|| ||Petrosianic: Yes, he did play 3. Bc4, and so he might still have thought that 3. Nf3 lost by force. But it doesn't.|
|Jan-12-10|| ||Petrosianic: Just looking at the Opening Explorer. Of the games in this database, the results with the new variation are pretty similar to the old.|
After 1. e4 e4 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 g5, it's
After 1. e4 e4 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 d6, it's
|Jan-18-10|| ||maxi: Good practical point.|
|Jul-28-10|| ||tentsewang: Fischer had a won game around move 17 but he made a mistake by giving up the initiative and eventually the giving up a whole piece. The right move was 17..Rf6!|
|Oct-31-10|| ||cuppajoe: <Fischer's article on death of the K's gambit:>|
I've always wondered if maybe Fischer published that article because he figured that if he claimed to have busted the KG, he wouldn't have to face it anymore.
|Oct-31-10|| ||cuppajoe: Following through on my previous thought: if that was Fischer's intention, it worked. Nobody ever played the KG against him again (at least that this database records).|
|Oct-31-10|| ||I play the Fred: But how many opportunities did opponents have after this game? Fischer practically always played the Sicilian.|
|Nov-01-10|| ||keypusher: <I play the Fred> It's easy to check. Fischer played 1...e5 occasionally; 1963 was the last time.|
Repertoire Explorer: Robert James Fischer (black)
Incidentally, RJF was 0-2 against the King's Gambit (the other game was in 1953).
|Nov-01-10|| ||TheFocus: The 1953 game was not a tournament game.|
|Nov-01-10|| ||keypusher: <TheFocus: The 1953 game was not a tournament game.>|
And he was 9 or 10, so it wouldn't matter if it were a tournament game.
|Nov-01-10|| ||Spasskyfan22: In my opinion, Spassky's by far the greatest KG player of all time. |
No one's had more success with it than Whisky Drink (Boris Spassky).
His health is in my prayers.
|Nov-03-10|| ||Petrosianic: <In my opinion, Spassky's by far the greatest KG player of all time.>|
You mean he's your favorite player, who played the King's Gambit. It would be ridiculous to say he was the best player ever at playing the King's Gambit.
|Nov-03-10|| ||acirce: <It would be ridiculous to say he was the best player ever at playing the King's Gambit.>|
How come? Who is so obviously better then?
|Nov-03-10|| ||Petrosianic: Tongue in cheek answer: Petrosian. he had a perfect score with it (1-0).|
Serious Answer: Somebody who actually made it a part of their repertoire, rather than an occasional novelty item.
(Notice how the tongue-in-cheek answer sneakily supplements the serious one by highlighting the absurdity of picking somebody you like for completely different reasons, just because they played that opening at some time?)
|Nov-06-10|| ||Spasskyfan22: Petrosianic,
I have 2 questions for you.
I wrote: "In my opinion, Spassky's by far the greatest KG player of all time."
You responded: "You mean he's your favorite player, who played the King's Gambit."
1) First off, when have I ever mentioned that I "do not" believe that Spassky's a better KG player than Steinitz, Lasker, Morphy and everyone else that's ever played it?
But yes, Spassky is my favorite player.
2) Therefore, couldn't it be completely possible that Spassky's my "favorite player" for the sole reason that I believe he's a better KG player than anyone else?
(Don't forget to breathe sweetheart)
|Nov-06-10|| ||Petrosianic: It's possible, but let's take this very game as an example. Is this an example of Spassky being a great King's Gambit player? Or is it an example of Spassky being a great overall player, who played the King's Gambit fairly badly, but was tough enough to hang in there until a middlegame opportunity presented itself?|
I'd call it the latter. He didn't play the King's Gambit very well in this one at all. He was clearly busted right out of the opening. And since it's really the <only> King's Gambit game that Spassky is famous for, it doesn't bode well for the notion that Spassky was good AT playing the King's Gambit.
|Nov-06-10|| ||Eyal: <it's really the <only> King's Gambit game that Spassky is famous for>|
No – besides this one, there's at least the famous brilliancy against Bronstein from the same year: Spassky vs Bronstein, 1960 (used in the opening scene of <From Russia with Love> - see http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail...).
Overall, and certainly relative to modern standards, Spassky played the King's Gambit often enough (though of course not as often as 2.Nf3) and in important enough events for it to be considered as part of his repertoire (it might be compared, say, to the place the Scotch had in Kasparov’s repertoire) - http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches.... And he has a really outstanding record with it - 16 wins and no losses in classical games. He must have at least a very good claim to being the greatest 20th century KG player.
|Nov-06-10|| ||BobCrisp: This game deserves the moniker <Boom and Bust>.|
|Nov-06-10|| ||Petrosianic: <No – besides this one, there's at least the famous brilliancy against Bronstein from the same year: Spassky vs Bronstein, 1960 (used in the opening scene of <From Russia with Love>|
Ah, that's a good point. That position is notorious, although it was never identified on film as a Spassky game, and it wasn't exactly the same position (the director removed two pawns to make it more photogenic. That one, I'll grant you, was a really good game, which was fairly widely published. But I don't think one game, however good, can make one the best of all time at a particular opening. That was the point of my quip about Petrosian being the best. He was a great player and he played the King's Gambit at least once, and had a perfect record with it, so does that make him the best King's Gambit player? Well no, not exactly.
|Nov-06-10|| ||percyblakeney: <I don't think one game, however good, can make one the best of all time at a particular opening. That was the point of my quip about Petrosian being the best. He was a great player and he played the King's Gambit at least once, and had a perfect record with it, so does that make him the best King's Gambit player? Well no, not exactly.>|
That's why Spassky is a much better pick, he played it lots of times and won famous games against Bronstein and Fischer, as well as against Karpov, Portisch, Seirawan, Kholmov, Averbakh, Furman, etc, while he never lost with it.
|Nov-06-10|| ||Eyal: Spassky played many excellent games in the King’s Gambit in very important tournaments, had an outstanding record with it, beat several extremely-strong-to-truly-great players (mentioned by <percyblakeney>) with it, and all that in a period when King's Gambit is hardly considered a legitimate opening on the high levels anymore. That certainly makes him stand out as a KG player in the modern period, so he cannot be dismissed out of hand as a completely arbitrary choice for a great KG player, and the case of the odd game played in this opening by Petrosian isn't really relevant here. |
As to whether he's the <greatest ever> - possibly not; I suppose 19th century players like Morphy or Steinitz, who played it much more regularly when this opening was among the most popular ones, may be better candidates in certain respects. But again, that's a very different stage of chess history, which makes such comparisons rather difficult.
|Nov-06-10|| ||Petrosianic: <That certainly makes him stand out as a KG player in the modern period, so he cannot be dismissed out of hand as a completely arbitrary choice for a great KG player,>|
I didn't. I dismissed the idea that he was the greatest King's Gambit player ever.
|Nov-07-10|| ||Everett: First off:
Spassky vs G Lane, 1979
Spassky vs P Motwani, 1987
Secondly, one can't discuss the KG without mentioning Bronstein:
+28 =11 -6 with wins over Kholmov, Yusupov, Ragozin, Panov and Tal.
|Nov-07-10|| ||percyblakeney: <First off>
That's games from simuls though, so I wouldn't count them.
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