< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·
|Apr-28-08|| ||TheaN: The first go, gonna get myself a lunch and see what has changed after that.|
Analysis by Fritz 11:
1. (4.38): 3.Rxd7+ Kf8 4.Rxc7 Re1+ 5.Kh2 Rb1 6.b3 Rc1 7.Rf7+ Ke8 8.Rxg7 Ne7 9.Rxh7 Rxc3 10.a4 Kd7 11.g4
2. (4.21): 3.Rf6+ Re6 4.Bxe6+ Qxe6 5.Rxe6 Kf7 6.Re1 Ne7 7.Kf2 b5 8.Re5 c6 9.Kf3 Nd5 10.Ke4 Nf6+ 11.Kd3 b6 12.a3 Nd5 13.g3 Kf6 14.Ke4
3. (1.92): 3.Re7+ Kf8 4.Rxd7 Re7 5.Rxe7 Kxe7 6.Bd5 Nd8 7.Kf2 Kd6 8.Bc4 Nc6 9.Ke3 Nb8 10.Bd3 g6 11.g4 Nd7 12.a4 Nf6 13.Be4 c6
Better yet, with Rxd7+, Black loses 4-1 pawns, making it even easier for White.
|Apr-28-08|| ||gtgloner: I know this isn't as good as 20. Rxf7, but is the Queen sac on e8 a terrible move? 20. Qxe8+ Qxe8 21. Bxf7+ Kf8 22. Bxe8 Kxe8 should also be winning since White is up an exchange in the end game as well as a positional advantage on the queen side.|
|Apr-28-08|| ||TheaN: No, that is wrong, as Black will not hesitate giving back his Queen (as she's lost anyway) to get up a piece.|
20.Qxe8?? Qxe8 21.Bxf7?! Qxf7 22.Rxf7 Kxf7 and Black is up N<>P.
|Apr-28-08|| ||arnaud1959: Black has no good counterattacking moves but ♖e8?? is definitely a horrible move for a 2025 rated player.|
|Apr-28-08|| ||zb2cr: Took a while to decide on 20. Rxf7, which offers a passive Queen sacrifice (20. ... Rxe3). I decided that Black's best was probably 20. ... Kh8; 21. Rxd7, Rxe3; 22. Rxc7 (threatening Rc8 with mate), h6; 23. Rxb7, with White up by three Pawns and Black in a world of hurt. I note from the kibitzing that <Funicular> found a much better refutation of 20. ... Kh8, namely 21. Qg5!|
|Apr-28-08|| ||Pianoplayer: ♖e8??|
|Apr-28-08|| ||goodevans: Saw 20 Rxf7 pretty quickly but then spent a couple of minutes checking my analysis.|
Thought this was quite tough for a Monday, and the kibitzing seems to back that up. Not that that's a bad thing!
|Apr-28-08|| ||johnlspouge: Monday (Very Easy): White to play and win.
Material: B for N. The White Bc4 and Rf1 have a strong attack on Pf7, which is pinned to Kg8. The Black Re8 attacks Qe3. Black is vulnerable to back-rank mates, so Qd7 must protect Re8.
Candidates (20.): Rxf7
20.Rxf7 (threatening 21.Rxd7+)
Because the Black Qd7 must protect Re8 while the back-rank mate threat is in force, he has as feasible options:
(1) 20…Rxe3 21.Rxd7+ Kf8 22.Rxc7
and White is ahead B+2Ps for N.
(2) 20…Qxf7 21.Qxe8# (not very feasible, admittedly)
(3) 20…Qc8 [Qd8 is similar] 21.Rc7+ then 22.Rxc8
Time to peek. My line is not as good as 20…Rxe3 21.Rf6+ in <dzechiel>'s post. Experience shows.
Emmanuel Lasker said: "If you see a good move, look for a better one."
As Mondays go, this puzzle was relatively tough.
|Apr-28-08|| ||thitho: the fact is that Re8 is probably the worst move possible in this situation. What could have black done, instead of this?
I, as a stupid hedgehog, would have played 19, ... Qe7. I don't see a point to make Na5 (the bishop will calmly go on d3 to transpose threat).
What else? And if black does not make this terrible mistake, does white have more than a draw?|
|Apr-28-08|| ||realbrob: <Terry McCracken> Are you sure there is a real solution of your puzzle?|
|Apr-28-08|| ||TheaN: <Time to peek. My line is not as good as 20…Rxe3 21.Rf6+ in <dzechiel>'s post. Experience shows.>|
Eh, actually, Rf6+ is not the most optimal line. My analysis of Rxd7 and Rf6+ above was ~20 ply, but on 26 ply, Rxd7+ has even risen to 4.74 whilst Rf6+ remained at 4.21. It's just what the easier win is. Rook/pawn to Knight, or four pawns to one pawn. In the situation however, Fritz thinks it's the pawn advantage, and so did I.
|Apr-28-08|| ||johnlspouge: <<TheaN> wrote: Eh, actually, Rf6+ is not the most optimal line. My analysis of Rxd7 and Rf6+ above was ~20 ply, but on 26 ply, Rxd7+ has even risen to 4.74 whilst Rf6+ remained at 4.21.>|
Given the choice of the two lines, I still prefer Rf6+. Although computers are very useful, the positions on Saturday and Sunday this week reinforced my growing suspicion that computer evaluations (even to arbitrary depth) do not reflect individual preferences. Different people can legitimately prefer different ways to win.
If I quit when I was ahead, however, that's nice to know. Thanks, <TheaN>!
|Apr-28-08|| ||lost in space: first thought is 20. Rxf7 Rxe3 21. Rxd7+. White will win more pawns on the 7.rank. Would not spend more time on better lines OTB|
|Apr-28-08|| ||kevin86: A strange Monday puzzle. I don't think I found the best answer:|
Either after 20 ♖xf7 ♖xe3 21 ♖f6+ ♕e6 22 ♖xe6 and white is up a pawn or...
21 ♖xd7+ ♔f8 22 ♖xc7...white is up TWO pawns.
Is there a better move?
|Apr-28-08|| ||YouRang: I found 20.Rxf7 Rxe3 21.Rxd7+ Kf8 22.Rf7+ (a semi-windmill?) Ke8 23.Rxg7 (with either the h7 or c7 pawn to fall next, unless...) Re7 allowing an exchange of rooks going into the endgame two pawns ahead -- should be an easy win for white.|
I see now that white had a bit stronger move with 21.Rf6+!, forcing 21...Qe6 22.Bxe6+ Rxe6 23.Rxe6 leaving white up the exchange and a pawn in the endgame, also winning easily.
|Apr-28-08|| ||234: Sunday puzzle <25. ?> Apr-27-08 Igor Ivanov vs Kudrin, 1989|
|Apr-28-08|| ||JohnBoy: <McCracken> - nice puzzle, but I don't think it's too brutal. After 1...Rxd2 2.Bxd2 Nd4 3.Q somewhere Nxf3+ white is faced with the awkward choice of 4.Bxf3 Bxf3 and black has lots of nice entry moves (like ...Qh1+ or ...Ng4 or ...Nxe4), or else giving back the exchange and black has great initiative.|
|Apr-28-08|| ||Magic Castle: <JohnBoy> Please edit your post as it is confusing. You may start with 20. Rf7 Re3 (if 20...Qf7 21. Qe1 mate-black queen is pinned by the bishop)21.Rf6 Qf7( Not 21....Qd6 as <You Rang> suggested since black will lose the exchange) 22. Rf7 Re8 23. Rc7 Kh8 24. Rb7 winning two pawns. <YouRang> first impression is correct.|
|Apr-28-08|| ||dzechiel: <Magic Castle: <JohnBoy> Please edit your post as it is confusing. You may start with 20. Rf7 Re3 (if 20...Qf7 21. Qe1 mate-black queen is pinned by the bishop)21.Rf6 Qf7( Not 21....Qd6 as <You Rang> suggested since black will lose the exchange) 22. Rf7 Re8 23. Rc7 Kh8 24. Rb7 winning two pawns.>|
Magic - JohnBoy is responding to a different problem posted by McCracken earlier in the kibitzing.
|Apr-28-08|| ||Terry McCracken: <realbrob: <Terry McCracken> Are you sure there is a real solution of your puzzle?>|
|Apr-28-08|| ||Terry McCracken: JohnBoy: <McCracken> - nice puzzle, but I don't think it's too brutal. <After 1...Rxd2 2.Bxd2 Nd4> |
You are right up to 2..Nd4 the next move is 3. fxg4..Nxg4
|Apr-28-08|| ||wals: B Rosican - Adrien Hervais, IBCA W-Ch Brno CZE
Analysis by Fritz 11: depth 23/39 time 3min 4sec
1. (4.29): 20...Re8xe3 21.Rf7xd7+ Kg8-f8 22.Rd7xc7 Re3-e1+ 23.Kg1-h2 Re1-b1 24.b2-b3 Rb1-c1 25.Rc7-f7+ Kf8-e8 26.d4-d5 Nc6-d4 27.Rf7xg7 Rc1xc3 28.Rg7xb7 Rc3-c2 29.a2-a4 h7-h5 30.Kh2-g3 h5-h4+
20.Bxf7 Depth 24/37 time 3min 3sec
1. (-0.66): 20...Qd7xf7 21.Rf1xf7 Re8xe3 22.Rf7xc7 Re3-e7 23.Rc7xe7 Nc6xe7 24.a2-a4 Kg8-f7 25.Kg1-f2 Kf7-e6 26.Kf2-e3 Ne7-d5+ 27.Ke3-e4 Nd5-f6+ 28.Ke4-e3 Ke6-d5 29.Ke3-d3 h7-h5 30.c3-c4+ Kd5-d6 31.Kd3-e3 g7-g5 32.d4-d5 Kd6-e5 33.Ke3-d3 h5-h4
|Apr-28-08|| ||sleepyirv: Very interesting Monday puzzle. The principle seems rather obvious (bishop and rook, back row mate maybe) and black is demanding some punishment for sloppy defense. I settled on RxF7, but I still don't feel very comfortable with the move.|
|Apr-28-08|| ||patzer2: For today's "easy" Monday solution, White
plays 20. Rxf7! with multiple discovered check threats.
If 20...Qxf7??, then the pin allows White
to win immediately with 21. Qxe8#. If Black plays 20...Rxe3, then the two discovered check combinations described by <dzechiel>, <YouRanq> and others easily win decisive material.
My favorite is 20. Rxf7! Rxe3 21. Rf6+! Qe6 22. Bxe6+ Rxe6 23. Rxe6 , when with a full exchange and a pawn up White wins easily. However, the line 20. Rxf7! Rxe3 21. Rxc7+ , giving White a clear two pawn advantage, should also be sufficient.
|Apr-28-08|| ||DavidD: Normally these Monday puzzles are one or two variations one or two moves deep. This puzzle is a very nice analysis problem. The initial move (Rxf7) is easy to see. The problem comes after 20. Rxf7 Rxe3 and now evaluating the variety of ideas mentioned in other posts: Rf3+??, Rf6+ or Rxd7+. These "little" branches are often easy to miss, yet need to be calculated. I finally decided on Rxd7+ because, well, a queen is a queen. Overall, a very nice puzzle.|
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