|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 7 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Jul-14-06
 | | Richard Taylor: I couldn't find a (decisive or dramatic) win for White (I thought White could get winning end game) my guess was Bxh7+ as played but also I looked at Qh5 (this I thought was winning) - looking for a decisive or a dramatic win - it looked winning but I rejected it not knowing the result - must check the actual game results in future - but it is a good test to include defensive ideas. That knight to f5 then h3 is a great manouevre. CGs.com are getting tricky! |
 |
Jul-14-06
| | Richard Taylor: I was looking at 17. Qh5 g6 18 c5 but also I saw in one line 18 Qh6 and if Qf6
19. Nf5 and then if Qxb2 20. Ne2! wins.
But I coudln't see what to to do if
17 Qh5 g6 18 Qh6 Nxb2. But I did consider 19. Nb5 Qxh2+ 21 Qxh2 Bxh2+ 22.Kxh2 - when White is threatening to trap the Black knight and also has a Q-side pawn majority. |
|
Jul-14-06
| | Richard Taylor: The other line is a combination I actually played once as Black in the Najdorf and that is 17 Qh5 g6 18 Qh6 Qf4 19 Qg7+!! KxQ 20 Nf4++ Kg8 21. Ne7 mate!! |
|
Jul-14-06
| | Richard Taylor: After 17 Qh5 g6 18 Qh6 Nxb2 19 Nb5 Qe5 20 Nxc7 QxN 21. Rab1 f5 22 Bc2 Nxc4 23 bxc4 and now Qxc4 loses to 24. Bb3. |
|
Jul-14-06
| | Richard Taylor: 
click for larger viewI think White can even win from here. Black to play. He has to be wary of 18... Nf5 19 Qg7+!! winning also if 18...Qf5 the same combination. If 18. ... NxB 19 Nb5 Qe5 20 Nxc7 Qxc7 21 Rab1 when say Nxc5 22 bxc5 Qxc5 23 Bxb7 ofr Rf1 and White can use his h pawn to start a K-side attack. But...(there's always a but!).... |
|
Jul-14-06
| | Richard Taylor: If in the above line 19..Qe5 20 Nxc7 QxB 21 Nxa1 .. Black plays Qc6 he threatens to get 2 pieces for the R. But Black can play 22. Rab1 Nd3 23. Rfd1 with advantage In the above position White is threatening mate in three !! I don't use computers as I only have Chessmaster so someone might want to Fritz my line. (I don't trust the analysis of computers). But I am prepared to be disabused... |
|
Jul-15-06
| | Richard Taylor: I see the problem I had overlooked 18 ...NxB 20 Nb5 Qe4 21 Qxf4 Bxf4 22 Rab1 Be5 (or Bg7) 23 f4 Bg7 24 Rf3 and White is running out of petrol ...hmmmm... . blast and bother!! But I saw the moves 17 Qh5 g6 18 Nb5 -but I was looking for a dramatic win by White! |
|
Mar-02-12
 | | chessgames.com: Today's puzzle is a spoiler we used in 2006. The flashy 17.Bxh7? fails, while the solid 17.Qh5 is pretty good. Let's see if anybody we fooled six years ago gets tricked all over again. |
|
Mar-02-12
 | | Phony Benoni: Well, I feel better now. Couldn't get anything to work. Black threatens both 17...Nxb2 and 17...Qxh2#. 17.Bxh7+ was the first move I considered, but couldn't see anything decisive after 17...Kxh7 18.Qh5+ Qh6. 17.Qh5 g6, and now what? We've got the long diagonal open, and if Black had to take the queen 18.Nf5 would work. But again, nothing looks forced. So I gave up, and looked to the game with interest. I figured if White had a combination good enough to surprise Kupreichik, it had to be something special! Kupreichik's refutation has his usual elegance. |
|
Mar-02-12
 | | lost in space: This is what I saw:
17. Bxh7 Kxh7? 18. Qxd3+ Qg6 19. Qxg6 Kxg6 20. Nb5 1:0Means: Black has to play
17. Bxh7 Kh8! 18. Qh5 Nf4! and there is no good continuation for White. We have to start differently maybe
17. Qh5 g6 18. Qh6 Nxb2 19. Nb5 Qf4 and once again nothing
I also played around with moves like c5 and Nb5 or Nf3-g5, but still Black is fine. Nuts, I can not find anything for white. |
|
| Mar-02-12 | | strobane: What kind of puzzle is this...white to play and lose? |
|
| Mar-02-12 | | twisted eye: It's 'White to play anything BUT Bxh7+' essential, a spoiler day. Me? Fell for the trick, hook, line, and sinker. Playing Bxh7+ first is the trap play, and being this late in the week, I should've been suspicious of something so 'obvious.' |
|
| Mar-02-12 | | alshatranji: The idea is that White should not, does not have to, defend his piece at once. Due to the double threat of Qxh2# and Nxb2, it seems that White has to do something at once, e.g. Bxh7+. But not really. White can allow the b2 Bishop capture, and then trap the knight later. For example, 17.Qhf g6, 18. Nb5 (the key move). After the exchange of queens, Qhite can trap the knight on b2 with Ra2. That's the general idea. There is extensive analysis in earlier pages. 17. Nf3 is also possible. |
|
| Mar-02-12 | | alshatranji: By the way, what if Black plays 19...Bd8, instead of 19...Kh3+? Not so flashy, but I think it's winning too. Kind of makes you feel worse for falling for the trap, as this (as opposed to Nh3+) isn't that difficult to find. |
|
| Mar-02-12 | | newzild: JUMAAT: 2.21pm - 2.31pm
White is up a pawn, but Black threatens mate in one. This reduces the number of candidate moves considerably. Let's try the most forcing move first: 17. Bxh7+
...and now:
a) 17...Kxh7 18. Qxd3+ K (any) 19. g3
And Black doesn't have enough for the two pawns, although White has to be careful of the light squares around his king. b) 17. Kh8 18. Qh5 Qxh2+ 19. Qxh2 Bxh2+ 20. Kxh2 Kxh7 (20...Nxb2 Bc2  ) Bc3 White is a pawn up in the ending.
Not terribly convincing, but I'm too tired today to look for something better. Time to check. |
|
| Mar-02-12 | | newzild: Wow, I fell into the same trap as Shereshevsky. I did actually see 18...Nf4, but not 19...Nh3+. Oh well. |
|
Mar-02-12
 | | Gypsy: Line of thoughts:
(1) <17.Qh5> and <17.Nf3> both stop the check-mate on h2. (Either seems plausible in a game; Qh5 is more of puzzle-style material.) (2) <17.Qh5 g6 18.Nf5...> and White has a serious threat 19.Nh6# of his own. (3) <17.Qh5 g6 18.Nf5 gxh5>, and the h6 is now covered. But it looks that White would have at least trades into a playable queen-less middle game. (4) <17.Qh5 g6 18.Nf5 gxh5 19.Nxd6 Nxb2 20.Nxc8 Rac8 21.Rfb1 ...> and, say, <21...Na4 22.bxa4 b6 ...> (5) Playable, but hardly a puzzle solution. (Kind of like <17.Nf3>.) (6) What have I missed?
---------
(7) Aha, missed <17.Bxh7+...>. Did not even consider it. (8) Hmm, but the <17.Bxh7+> did not end well for White!? (Ok, I better read up on what went wrong.) |
|
| Mar-02-12 | | viking78: white is up a pawn, and white is to move.
White has to defend h2 where is mate threat, and best move for that looks to be 17.Qh5, which protect h2 and also threat 18.Qxh7 mate. So 17... g6 18.Qh4 (or Qh6) and I can't see any win from here for White. For instance black can go up a piece taking 18... Nxb2. I have no more ideas for white which position looks awfull. Time to check where I missed White attack! |
|
| Mar-02-12 | | Teris: As a novice, I always come to the actual game and watch the progression rather than playing the game in my head from the home page. I was very confused by it being a white move and seeing that white lost. I assumed there was a mistake made... |
|
| Mar-02-12 | | meetvirgo2005: It was a spoiler!!!! Feeling good that I got it right with Qh5.This week has been strange.Failed on Monday and Tuesday and got it right on the rest of the days.You will never get tired with chess... |
|
| Mar-02-12 | | viking78: Hey, if they say in the puzzle that White to move, isn't that mean the solution we search should be win for White?? |
|
| Mar-02-12 | | viking78: So i said 17.Qh5, it means I solved the puzzle? :)) |
|
| Mar-02-12 | | LoveThatJoker: <17. Bxh7+ looks good> [17. Nf3 defends against the mate threat but leads to a position where Black has the advantage after 17...Nxb2 18. Qxd6 (18. Qc2 Bg4 19. g3 Bxf3 20. Bxf3 Qf6  ) Bxd6 19. Ra2 Re8 20. Bc2 Bg4 21. a4 Bxf3 22. gxf3 Nxa4] <17...Kxh7>
[17...Kh8 18. Qh5 Bg4 19. Qh4 Qxh2+ (19...g5!? forces White to find the only move 20. Bxd3! gxh4 21. Nf5+ Qe5 22. Bxe5 Bxe5 23. Rae1 Bc3 24. Re7 and White is two pawns up and has a good position) 20. Qxh2 Bxh2+ 21. Kxh2 Nxb2 - 21...Kxh7 22. Bc3 and White is a pawn up in a somewhat equal position - 22. Be4 and White is still a pawn up and has a rich position] <18. Qxd3+ Kg8 19. f4> and White is two pawns up with a good position. LTJ |
|
| Mar-02-12 | | Jason Frost: I saw that 17. Bxh7+ was bad but missed the critical lines after 17. Qh5, when the only good move is 18. Nb5 and everything else (including the more obvious 18. Qh6) loses. e.g. 17. Qh5 g6 18. Qh6 Nxb2 19. Nb5 Qf4! 
click for larger viewMost critical is probably 17. Qh5 g6 18. Nb5 gxh5 19. Nxd6 Nxb2 20. c5 f5 21. Bd5+ Kg7 22. Nxc8 Raxc8 23. Bxb7 
click for larger viewWhen white should have good enough compensation to draw. Which is better than 17. Bxh7+ Kh8 18. Qh5 Nf4 19. Nb5 Nxh5 20. Nxd6 
click for larger viewBut not sure by enough to warrant this being a puzzle at all |
|
| Mar-02-12 | | LoveThatJoker: Oh boy! I missed the ...Nf4 and ...Nh3 ideas.
However, as a small consolation, I did find White's best try with 17. Nf3 which is better than 17. Bxh7+ and 17. Qh5. I'm writing these lines as Stockfish analyzes the puzzle position and confirms that 17. Nf3 was the way to go. Still...I should have just gone with that!
My streak ends today at 6.
LTJ |
|
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 7 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
