< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Oct-23-09|| ||A Karpov Fan: missed it, too much of a muddle for me :-(|
|Oct-23-09|| ||agb2002: White has B+N+P for the bishop pair. White threatens mate in one with 21.Qd6# and the pawns on d4 and e6. The white queen lacks mobility which suggests 20... Ne4 (21.Qa5 Nxg5 22.fxg5 dxc3 - + [B vs P]) 21.Qb5 (21... Rxc3 22.Qe8#; 21... Qxb5 22.Nxb5 Nxg5 23.fxg5 (23.Nxa7 Ra8 - + [B vs P]) Bxd3 24.Nd6 (24.Nxa7 Ra8 25.Rd1 Ba6 - +) Rc6 looks unclear) Nc5 22.Qxb3 Nxb3 - + with multiple threats: ... Nxa1; ... dxc3; ... Bxd3, etc.|
I have considered other moves but they don't look good: 20... Qb6 21.Na4 Qc6 22.Nxe6+; 20... Nd5 21.Qd6+ Ne7 22.Nxe6+ Bxe6 (22... Kxf7 23.Ng5+ and 24.Qxe7) 23.Rxe6; 20... Ke7 21.Qxd4.
|Oct-23-09|| ||Patriot: In terms of looking for checks, captures, and threats 21...Nc5 in itself wasn't a threat (which is probably why I didn't calculate it) but guards the white queen while leaving a residual threat of 22...dxc3. The knight on c3 cannot move since it hangs the white queen, and after 22.Qxb3 Nxb3 white has two pieces hanging.|
|Oct-23-09|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: In this dynamic position, black has two bishops for bishop+knight and an apparently strong initiative, in spite of the awkward position of the black king, which now prevents the rooks from connecting. Black has a development and space advantage owing to white's undeveloped queenside and the strong position of black's queen. White's missing LSB (and hole at b3) gives black light-square domination. White's f7-pawn doesn't have enough piece support to cause any trouble unless black is careless. However, white is now threatening 21.Qd6#, countering black's threat of dxc3. Therefore, the obvious, logical move (and my only candidate) is:|
This stops the mate threat and uncovers on white's queen. One try to save the queen is
Now if 21... Qxb5? 22.Nxb5 Nxg5 23.fxg5 Bxd3 (intending 23.Nxa7 Ra8 winning a piece) 24.Nd6! followed by 25.Rxe6 and white has unnecessary counterplay. But...
21... Nc5! 22.Qxb3 Nxb3 23.Rb1 dxc3 wins at least a piece and the f7 pawn falls quickly.
A.1) 22.Rxe6 Bxe6 (dxc3?? 23.Qe8+ wins) 23.Nxe6+ Qxe6 is equally hopeless for white.
A.2) 22.Nxe6+ Bxe6 wins
A.3) 22.Qa5 dxc3 wins.
B) 21.Qa5 Nxg5 22.Nb5 (22.fxg5 dxc3 wins easily) Nxf7 23.Nxa7 Ra8 or Re8 wins
C) 21.Nxe6+ Bxe6 wins - white has no good spot for the Q.
D) 21.Rxe4 Bxe5 22.Rxe5 dxc3 and white has nothing for the Q
E) 21.Qxg7+ Kxg7 22.Nxd4 Qxd3 or h7 win easily for black
F) 21.N3xe4 Bxe5 22.fxe5 Qxd3 23.Nd6 Rc2 and white can't develop the Bc1 and can do nothing about the threats Re2 and h7.
Unless I'm missing something, I would guess that engine evaluations after Ne4 would be +4 or +5. Probably white goes into line A and resigns after 21... Nc5 - let's see...
|Oct-23-09|| ||lzromeu: I do it. I see a double defense and undiscover atack to the Queen, but I can't see all the continuation.|
Great counter atack by black
|Oct-23-09|| ||YouRang: Well I noticed that black had a mate threat with ...Qd6 (or ...Qc5 if the rook moves to d8 to stop ...Qd6). I also noticed that black had no way to give check. Conclusion: we have to find the best defense. |
At first I thought 20...Qb6, but it hardly leaves one with the impression that a puzzle had been solved. Furthmore, the queen is now subject to annoying attacks, like 21.Na4. So I dismissed it.
Surely, we need to take advantage of our DSB's discovered attack on the queen by moving our knight. That means either 20...Ne8 or 20...Ne4. I went with the latter because the former looks like it drops a knight.
So: <20...Ne4>, defends d6 while attacking the queen (and the Ng5). White's only queen-saving move is <21.Qb5> (21.Qa5 drops a knight: 21...Nxg5 22.fxg5 dxc3).
Here, I figured <21...Qxb5 22.Nxb5 Nxg5 23.fxg5>, which looks like a pretty even position. I don't see a more winningish line, but after the trouble I was in, I'm willing to be content with 'even'.
|Oct-23-09|| ||Jimfromprovidence: If it could be better for white to give up the queen with 21 Qxe4, should black play 21…Bxe4 right away, or keep the queen en prise and play 21…dxc3 below instead?
click for larger view
Black anticipates 22 Qe3 cxb2, forking the bishop and knight.
click for larger view
|Oct-23-09|| ||benjinathan: What is up with 24.g4?|
|Oct-23-09|| ||aazqua: What a crazy game. How white managed to throw away his immense advantage is beyond me.|
|Oct-23-09|| ||doubledrooks: Black goes on the offensive with 20...Ne4, and now:
a. 21. Qb5 Nc5 22. Qxb3 Nxb3, and black threatens 23...Nxa1 and 23...dxc3
b. 21. Qa5 Nxg5 22. fxg5 dxc3
|Oct-23-09|| ||chrisowen: Wow what mayhem on the board. I think it is Ne4 but not sure what happens in the subsequent moves. I try denting white's attack expecting Qa5 which is a miss. I'll look again back over this targetting b5 exchanging queens.|
|Oct-23-09|| ||JG27Pyth: What a mess! Yikes. Got the first move, ... I mean, what else? But I was expecting Qa5... well the whole thing gives me the willies...|
|Oct-23-09|| ||BOSTER: When the white Knight on c3 under attack from pawn d4 white created a diversion- making a counter threat-moving his queen 20.Qe5 in black camp and maybe hoping for blunder Qd6#.
In this game white's diversion did not prevent black from executing his threat.
After 20...Ne4 (which is obvious) white queen had only two free squares a5 and b5.
21.Qb5 Nc5 (difficult move to find) 22.Qxb3 Nxb3 and two white pieces under attack and as result they lost a piece.|
|Oct-23-09|| ||jsheedy: All I see is 20...Ne4, 21. Qb5, QxQ, and black goes into an endgame a piece up. Black can't take the Knight immediately, 20...dxc3, 21. Qd6#, so 20...Ne4 prevents that while threatening the Queen and blocking the e-file.|
|Oct-23-09|| ||Patriot: <jsheedy> You'd better count the pieces again after 20...Ne4 21.Qb5 Qxb5 22.Nxb5. :-)|
|Oct-23-09|| ||briiian13: this is no puzzle . just a bunch of sharp middle game moves could have ended up in any sort of result.|
|Oct-23-09|| ||muralman: got the initial move.... now what.... I shall search.|
|Oct-23-09|| ||wals: Viktor Kupreichik - Lev Gutman, Bad Endbach 1995
Analysis by Rybka 3 1-cpu: ply 17 time 3 min 4
1. (-2.18): 21.Qxe4 dxc3 22.Qe3 cxb2 23.Rb1 h6 24.Bxb2 Bxb2 25.Nf3 b6 26.h3 h5 27.Re2 Rc2 28.Kh2 Qc3 29.Ne5 Bxa3 30.Rxc2 Qxc2 31.Ra1 Qb2 32.Re1 Bd6
2. (-2.23): 21.Qb5 Nc5 22.Qxb3 Nxb3 23.Nb5 h6 24.Nxe6+ Bxe6 25.Rxe6 Kxf7 26.Re1 Rhd8 27.Nxa7 Ra8 28.Rb1 Rxa7 29.f5 gxf5 30.Bf4 Raa8 31.Re2 Re8 32.Rc2 Re7
|Oct-23-09|| ||WhiteRook48: I looked at 20....Qc2 and thought the Q invasion won|
|Oct-23-09|| ||David2009: <sagahelten: My Fritz simply takes the knight after: 20...Ne4! 21. Qxe4 Bxe4 22. Ncxe4 h6 23. Nc5! Rxc5 24. Nxd6+ Kxf7 25. Qb5 Ne5 26. Qxd3 Ne6+ 27. Kg8 f5 28. gxf5 (or g5) 29. Bf4 and White is winning, but Black has active play.>|
Did you mean 25 Nxc5 Qb5 26 Ne4 Qxd3 27 Nd6+ Kg8 28 f5 gxf5 29 Bf4 ?
23 Nc5! is indeed a brilliant move - my earlier analysis <David2009: [snip] 20...Nge4 21 Qxe4 Bxe4 22 Ncxe4 is better [but also] gives White too little for the Q> is
far too superficial. It is intriguing that the silicon monsters DECLINE the sacrifice in favour of something even better (viz 21...dxc3)!
In your line 25...Qc2 is an alternative to Qb5 e.g. 26 Nxb7? Qc7 or 26 Ne4 Rd8. I think White is too undeveloped to be winning. But it's a different game.
Crafty link (if the Q sacrifice is acepted) - good luck as White!
|Oct-23-09|| ||Check It Out: I saw 20...Ne4 21.Qb5 but had no idea what would happen after that.|
|Oct-23-09|| ||aidin299: As <wals> said ,the strongest and deepest moves for each side in 21st move is 21.Qxe4 dxc3 and then 22.Qxe3 for white.
The moves Qa5 or Qb5 while giving some minor superiorities for white ,but are not as strong as Qxe4 in the last position.
rest of the game can be a battle of practis ,strategy and tactics especially in the end game phase for each side.|
|Oct-23-09|| ||gofer: White is about to play 21 Qd6#, so whatever black does it has to stop that threat. Luckily for black, he can stop the mate,
with either Ke7, Rc6, Ne8 or Ne4. But which is better? |
Now because there are 4 possibles and only one of them is a disaster (Ne8) the rest required some analysis and so I think
this puzzle is actually quite difficult!
1) 20 ... Ke7 21 Nb5 Qd5 22 Nxd4 is not great for black
2) 20 ... Ne8 (21 Nxe6+ is much better for black but white isn't going to play Nxe6+ (Qb5 Qxb5 22 Nxb5 a6 winning or Qe7/Qa5 22 dxc3 winning) fxe6 21 Qxe6 Qxe6 22 Rxe6 Kxf7 winning)
21 fxe8=Q+ Kxe8 (Rxe8 22 Qc4+ Kf7 23 Nb5 winning for white)
22 Qxg7 winning for white!
3) 20 Rc6 Nb5 21 Qd4 Nxd4 is okay for white
So that just leaves...
4) 20 ... Ne4
21 Nxe6+ (Qb5 Qxb5 22 Nxb5 Nxg5 23 Nd6 a6 winning or Qe7/Qa5 22 dxc3 winning) fxe6 21 Qxe6 Qxe6 22 Rxe6 Kxf7 winning)
21 dxe4 Bxe5 22 fxe5 winning for black
21 Qa5 Nxg5 winning
21 Qb5 Nc5 22 Qxb3 Nxb3 winning
So the last option works...
Time to check...
|Oct-23-09|| ||johnlspouge: Friday (Difficult)
Kupreichik vs L Gutman, 1995 (20…?)
Black to play and win.
Material: N+P for B. The White Kg1 has 3 legal moves and is secured from check. White threatens mate-in-1 with 21.Qd6#, so Black requires a candidate with defensive qualities. The most aggressive candidate protecting d6 is 20…Ne4, which attacks the White Qe5. Black also threatens …dxc6 once the immediate danger passes.
Candidates (20…): Ne4, Qb6, Rc6
20…Ne4 (threatening 21…Bxe5)
I immediately intuited 20…Ne4 as the best move, although I thought it drawing, rather than winning. White can force some extremely messy variations (like 21.Nxe6+), which take too much time for me to analyze on a Friday. It is definitely an interesting and unusual position, however.
|Oct-23-09|| ||patzer2: For today's Friday puzzle solution, Gutman's rather forced 20...Ne5! leads to a winning double attack after 21. Qb5 Nc5! 22. Qxb3 Nxb3 .|
Double attacks where two enemy pieces are under attack by two separate pieces (in this case a pawn and a Knight) are less frequent than double attacks by a single piece (e.g. Queen forks, Pawn forks etc.) but are no less powerful.
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