< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·
|Mar-06-08|| ||zooter: hmmm...both rooks are unprotected...so how about
25...Bxc3 26.Rxc3 Ne4 (forking the rooks) 27.fxe4 (what else?) Qxe4+
Time to check...not exactly a full analysis..so let me see as I even liked 26.Re4...
|Mar-06-08|| ||zooter: wow, I got it correct!!! :)
But does 27.fxe4 lose? and is the correct move 27...Qxe4? Can somebody post an analysis please...
|Mar-06-08|| ||zooter: Ok, correction....27...Rxe4 would be the correct move as 27...Qxe4+ would result in QxQ :(|
|Mar-06-08|| ||zooter: don't wanna take this entire board for myself, but
after 26.fxe4 Rxe4 black has 2 threats...One against the queen and also a discovered check threat...The only safe place for the queen is h3 in which case also black would probably pick up the queen with Rh4+ or may even try for mate..
|Mar-06-08|| ||dzechiel: Black to move. White is up a pawn. "Medium."
Boy, at first glance white's pieces just LOOK uncoordinated. The knight on g1, the king on g2, the queen on h4, the rook on c1 doing sentry duty to keep the c3-knight on the board.
It's tough to tell what target black should select. Obvious candidates are the almost trapped queen and the rook running around without support.
Well, it's been about five minutes looking at this position (my screen saver just kicked in) and I finally see an idea. I'm not sure what tipped me off to it at first, but one thing involved was the long diagonal from a8 to h1 with the black queen and white king looking at each other over the f-pawn.
The idea goes...
25...Bxc3 26 Rxc3 Ne4
forking the rooks. If white doesn't take the knight he goes down an exchange. So
27 fxe4 Rxe4
on the white queen AND threatening a nasty discovered check. White can play
getting a rook and knight for the queen and pawn, but I'm guessing he doesn't.
Time to check.
|Mar-06-08|| ||Gilmoy: Odd to see no kibitzing here yet :)
I considered Re2+, Qf3+, and doing something with the Nh5, and ruled them all out. Qc7 et al. looks too meek, as she's already on close to her ideal threat axis. White's K has almost no escape from a check on the long diagonal, and it'd be a shame to throw that away.
If we cannot go to the f3-pawn, then the f3-pawn must come to us. Deflecting it to e4 looks killer. I soon saw the game line 25..Bxc3 <removing a defender> 26.Rxc3 Ne4 and White cannot accept: 27.fxe4 Rxe4 threatens the Q and a killer double check. (Originally I had 27..Qxe4+ 28.Kh3 Qe1 forking the loose Rc3 and Qf1#, overlooking that White's Q attacks e4, but I noticed it in time.) Hence White's Rs are forked, down an exchange.
|Mar-06-08|| ||Chesstalesfan: ...Nxg3 26Qxg3 Be5 27Bf4 BxB 28 QxB and now the fork: 28..Nd3|
|Mar-06-08|| ||zooter: <Chesstalesfan: ...Nxg3 26Qxg3 Be5 27Bf4 BxB 28 QxB and now the fork: 28..Nd3>|
Unfortunately, white can play 26.hxg3 stopping the sequence or even
26.Qxg3 Be5 27.Bf4 Bxf4 28.Qxf4 and now the fork: 28...Nd3 fails because of 29.Rxd3
|Mar-06-08|| ||mistreaver: I thought about first two moves but i tought the knight sacrifice isn't sound enough|
|Mar-06-08|| ||Tactic101: Pretty combination!
Ok, breaking it down:
We note that the white queen is in a pretty dangerous position. It has only 1 safe square (h3) to run to if attacked. Everything else is covered.
Also, the black queen and white king are lined up, with only a white pawn seperating them. Dangerous for white.
Also, imagine if the c3 knight were replaced by the c1 rook. Then, Ne4 would win win material if the f3 pawn were not there.
Okay, looks like we can make something now. Bxc3, Rxc3, Ne4. If white plays fxe4 to avoid losing material by the fork, then Rxe4.
Now, the f3 pawn has vanished. The black rook attacks the queen AND also, if moved, exposes a devestating discovered check. Certainly not a situation white wants. Black wins a lot of material.
|Mar-06-08|| ||jovack: A nice tactic. This is why Christiansen is credited for being an 'attacking' player.|
|Mar-06-08|| ||zb2cr: Saw this. I have nothing to add to the write-ups by <Tactic101> and <dzechiel>.|
|Mar-06-08|| ||iccsumant: Well, this is kind of easy isn't it? Kind of solved the whole thing in a couple of seconds...(probably easier when it is a problem rather than in a real game). LOL!|
|Mar-06-08|| ||Tactic101: Hmmm, 37...? would be a good Monday puzzle. Probably for simplification.|
I should look at the game completely. Even with the exchange up, the game isn't clearly won for black.
|Mar-06-08|| ||Nimzoholz: Another petite combination by Christiansen to fork with the other Knight/same square 37...Rf2 38.Kf2 Ne4+ in order to simplify.|
|Mar-06-08|| ||JG27Pyth: Missed it. I liked 25.bxc4 (thinking 26.Qxc4+ Ne6 ... wins the bishop so White had to play 26.bc instead, met by 26...Qb2+ )|
But I should have seen 25.bxc4 26.Qxc4+ Ne6 27.Rxe6! Rxc4 28.Re1 and white will win back the queen and simplify to an advantageous but not won, ending.
So I found a tricky line that requires good defense and doesn't lose outright -- that wins a small bag of peanuts, a penny and a "keep tryin'" sticker, right?
What? No peanuts? *phooey*
-- Looking at the correct solution...Damn it it's not very hard! It strikes me as exactly the sort of combination I need to find. The
"one step removed from being obvious" combination.
There's no glaring flaw in White's position that can be taken advantage of on the move, but there's obviously plenty to work with if you can see how to create the problem.
I examined Bxc3 thinking it had potential because it pulled White's rook off the back rank... it never occurred to me that the N was important in the way it guarded e4.
I think (or my rather, my chess software thinks) that 25.fxe4 would have been better for White than the text. Black wins Q for R+N... still seems like a pretty good deal for Black to me. ;)
|Mar-06-08|| ||johnlspouge: Thursday (Medium): Black to play and win
Material: Down a P. The Black Qb7 is on the same diagonal as the White Kg2. The Black Bg7 and Re8 are mobile, and Nh5 has a check Nf4+. The Nc3 is protected 1x by Rc1 and attacked 1x by Bg7, but Rc8 also attacks it implicitly, shielded by Nc5 and Rc4. The White Qh4 has one escape square, h3.
Candidates (25...): Bxc3
Candidates (26...): Ne4, Re4
26...Ne4 (forking Rd6 and Rc3)
The Ne4 is immune, because
27.fxe4 Rxe4 (threatening 28...Rxh4 and 28...Rd2++ 29.K any Qg2#)
Black gains the exchange and plays bxc4. He has lots of time to invade with his heavy pieces, because White has no serious counterattack with Ng1 so far out of play.
Time to peek. Attaboy! This combination has a crystalline beauty. I will post and then check the kibitzing.
|Mar-06-08|| ||johnlspouge: <<JG27Pyth> wrote: Missed it. I liked 25.bxc4 [snip]|
There's no glaring flaw in White's position that can be taken advantage of on the move, but there's obviously plenty to work with if you can see how to create the problem.>
If it makes you feel better, <JG27Pyth>, I looked at 25.bxc4 also, because little P moves can be good preludes to bigger things. Generally, they are not forcing enough, but sometimes they come up roses. Tal is a master at such moves, e.g., a move I do not yet understand completely, 27...b5 in Spiridonov vs Tal, 1969.
I have my own ritual, listing piece protections, weak back ranks, pieces on common diagonals and files, etc., in preparation for finding a candidate. (I like to think my ritual is at least as good as <wals>'s technique of warming up his separate hemispheres :) Today, the ritual was invaluable, because when I looked for candidates, I found nothing interesting. I later recalled, however, that the Black Q and White K were both on a8-h1, and the importance of the square e4 soon became apparent.
|Mar-06-08|| ||Samagonka: Either these Thursday puzzles are getting more difficult or my performance is getting worse...|
|Mar-06-08|| ||SpoiltVictorianChild: well, i saw that he could win the exchange, but didn't guess the pawn move that activates the queen.|
|Mar-06-08|| ||Alphastar: Alright, this one wasn't too hard for me once I spotted the idea;
The geometrical motif is 1. ..Bxc3 2. Rxc3 Ne4!
This leaves white a miserable choice between losing the exchange or having to sacrifice his queen after 3. fxe4 Rxe4! since then white cannot stop 4. ..Rxh4 AND the discovered check along the long diagonal.
Time to check.
|Mar-06-08|| ||whiteshark: |
<25...Bxc3> eleminating an e4 guard <26.Rxc3 Ne4> (forking the ♖♖) <27.fxe4 Rxe4> when the threat of a discovered check will win the white ♕.
Other lines ? DAUT !
|Mar-06-08|| ||zooter: <whiteshark:
<25...Bxc3> eleminating an e4 guard <26.Rxc3 Ne4> (forking the RR) <27.fxe4 Rxe4> when the threat of a discovered check will win the white Q.
Other lines ? DAUT !>
It might be a good idea for CG to put in puzzles where both players have sharp counterattacks and then it would be really interesting and tough to find the best line...
|Mar-06-08|| ||kevin86: If 27 fxe4,black may even do BETTER than catching the queen.|
27 fxe4 Rxe4 28 Bf4 Re2+ 29 Kf1 (or h3) Qg2#-so black must lose a rook for a knight.
DEJA-VU,warning:26..Ne4 and 38...Ne4+ winning rooks at d6--first a rook fork,then a rook/king fork
|Mar-06-08|| ||JG27Pyth: <JohnLspouge:
Tal is a master at such moves, e.g., a move I do not yet understand completely, 27...b5 in Spiridonov vs Tal, 1969.>
Thanks for pointing that game out! Wow, b5 is either deep as hell or it's a brilliant positional deflection... I actually think it's super-deep super-accurate chess. It does set up the pin at the very end that clinches the combo. I think Tal calculated it all the way there. We are talking about Tal here... it's not just another GM. But that's just my not-very informed opinion. (and I didn't work through all the kibitzing around that move.)
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