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Andre Lilienthal vs Gyorgy Negyesy
HUN-ch Szavay Memorial (1931), Budapest HUN, rd 3, Apr-20
Queen's Gambit Declined: Semi-Tarrasch Defense. Exchange Variation (D41)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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sac: 24.Qxd8+ PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Aug-14-07  Fezzik: This is a good Tuesday puzzle. It's relatively simple for the regulars to see, but it contains enough complexity and relevance for it to be instructional.

<MAJ> has pointed out an alternative win. I didn't notice it because the more obvious line won. I don't mind that there's an alternate win here because this was a *game* and not a puzzle.

If this was later in the week, then ther should probably be only one best line. Today, the main line is enough to teach, and I can use the second line for enrichment purposes.

Great choice, chessgames.com!

Aug-14-07  Fitz: This one was easy, the first was pretty obvious and the rest was not too hard either. Nice puzzle though!
Aug-14-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  beenthere240: <Creg> nails it. If 27. Rxa7 is played with the intention of following it up with Qxd8+, then the next step is to investigate playing Qxd8+ immediately. And behold it works. Therefore 27. Rxa7 is not so much wrong as pointless.
Aug-14-07  TopaLove: This game is wonderful.
Aug-14-07  Richard03: <willyfly:I'll never be a child prodigy > In a post- simul conversation, GM Kaidanov indicated that learning after maturity limited the ability to advance. So it isn't your fault. Blame it on the parents. Polgar might be a good place to look for a cure. After all he did do well by the daughters.
Aug-14-07  realbrob: 24.Qxd8+ Qxd8 (forced) 25.Rb8, Black can delay mate playing something like 25..h6 but then of course he's down a piece and can't prevent White from promoting the pawn, so the game is over of course.

<MostlyAverageJoe> You're right, White can also play 24.Rxa7 and win another pawn, but I don't think that's relevant. Maybe in the spirit of a puzzle you're supposed to win in the fastest way possible.

Aug-14-07  Crowaholic: <MostlyAverageJoe: I am not exactly sure why the second line is less forcing.>

I think it's less forcing for the same reason that taking a toilet break is less forcing than playing 24. Qxd8+ outright.

Aug-14-07  chessamateur: <fictionist> It'll be about 1624 next month. Thanks for the welcome back. However I've always been here though. Forgot my damn password for awhile and was under a couple of other names, like The 3 Gambiteers for ex. How have you been?
Aug-14-07  Ragh: 20..Rac8?? is a very costly blunder. It only helped strengthened white's grip on black's weak back rank. A beautiful combination to end the game.
Aug-14-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: A queen sac-it looks like a Monday puzzle-but it is a little more complicated for Monday. Yesterday's puzzle was less of a Monday style and today's is a little harder-hence the switch.

The key move was to thin out the weak back row of black's.

While I disagree that 20...♖ac8 was a blunder-the move in itself isn't so bad,the idea was; The next move was far worse in my eyes.

Aug-14-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: Good Tuesday puzzle -- Black obviously had back-rank issues, and white obviously had a number of lateral-moving pieces (a queen, two rooks and a promoted pawn!) all threatening to hit the back rank.

It's just a matter of finding the right first move, and there's really only one viable candidate.

Aug-14-07  Certhas: This Patzer here was thinking Nd6... Didn't notice the fact that mate was in the air. meh.
Aug-14-07  Morozov: I missed this puzzle. I originally looked at the 24. Qxd8+, but then turned away. I ended up with 24. Nd6, which threatens his rook on c4. Once he moves, I fork the rook and king with Nxf7+. My analysis could be incorrect, but either way, 24. Qxd8+ is clearly superior to 24. Nd6.
Aug-14-07  dabearsrock1010: Easy Tuesday the back rank theme screams at you and its not a difficult calculation
Aug-14-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  playground player: That Black King sitting on the back rank behind his row of pawns was just asking for it; and what he got was Qxd8, leading directly to doom. Back when I was learning chess at our neighborhood playground, we used to call that kind of mate "the Old Man."
Aug-14-07  alexandrovm: not even close...
Aug-14-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  fm avari viraf: Black's back rank is vulnerable, therefore, in lieu of 20...Rac8 he should have played 20...h6 driving away the Queen from the h4-d8 diagonal as well as creating an escape for his King thr' h7. Again, another grave mistake is 21...Rc4? after this Black is completely lost but the technique is worthy of note.
Aug-14-07  vibes43: <Creg: The puzzle offers one winning theme and that is the back rank mate starting with Qxd8+. It doesn't matter how you go about it as long as you see the theme. Rxa7 prior to Qxd8 is simply unnecessary, it doesn't lose, it just doesn't need to be played.>

Agreed. But anyone claiming that the puzzle solution was easy should have at least investigated Rxa7. Yes, Qxd8+ was easy to spot but not easy to know if best until other possibilites are considered. As <MAJ> pointed out, mate is 14 plies from move 24. How many of us visualized all 14 moves. Not me but at a point I decided Qxd8+ was the better move.

Aug-14-07  ahmadov: Damn, how could I miss this easy puzzle :(
Aug-14-07  MostlyAverageJoe: Well, in retrospect, I withdraw my objection to the puzzle's quality. I was grumpy yesterday, and looking for something to pick on. Indeed, the main theme repeats in both lines, so it is enough to see it once. Which I did, so I am not sure any more why I had any objections.

It is somewhat curious that disposing of extra pawn before bringing down the full force on the back rank causes the engine to work much, much longer to find the forced mate, but for humans it really makes no difference.

Still, starting the puzzle two moves earlier would've made it much more interesting and challenging (and not for Tuesday :-).

Aug-14-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: For today's puzzle solution, White's 24. Qxd8+! temporarily sacrifices the Queen for a back rank mating attack.

After 24. Qxd8+! Qxd8, the decoy pin 25. Rb8 leads to mate following 25...Qxb8 26. d8(Q) Qxd8 27. Rxd8#.

Aug-14-07  leow: Murphyman: 20).... Rac8 looked to be the blunder.

Why didnt he play?

20).... exd5

21. Nc5 seems to win at least a pawn

Aug-14-07  jackmandoo: Umm, too bad the queen can just take the castle. Now white just lost his queen and castle. How long have you guys been playing chess? How could everybody miss that????
Aug-14-07  ucbu: <jackmandoo> You're kidding right? See patzer2 two posts above yours.
May-27-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: It would be interesting to see this game analyzed. Poor Negyesy must have wondered where exactly he went wrong. After 13...Nd5 I daresay he thought that he was in no danger of losing. Interestingly, the editor of the book "Lilienthal's Hundred Best Games" (2001) is Gyorgy Negyesi(!) Can it be the same person who lost this game, or more likely that person's son or even grandson? (This game isn't in the book.)
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