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|Feb-12-07|| ||Schlechter: he still won whether it was informal or not|
|Aug-29-08|| ||TheTamale: Marshall would have beaten Fischer in a match simply because Fischer wouldn't have played the match through to completion. As such, Fischer would not have "slap[ped] Marshall silly."|
|Oct-31-09|| ||RookFile: Listen, I love Marshall's games, especially his ideas in the openings. Regarding the openings, Marshall may have been one of the most profound inventors this game had ever known. |
Marshall just wasn't world champion strength, that's all.
I'm not sure why Bobby Fischer comes up in every topic, but the fact is, Fischer completed two matches against Boris Spassky, a match against Petrosian (plus their USSR vs. world set-to), a match against Larsen, a match against Taimanov, a short match against Euwe, a match against Cardaso, and various other short matches. The fact that he walked out on the Reshevsky match and couldn't agree to terms with Karpov doesn't change the fact that Fischer did complete a multitude of matches, and had an excellent match record.
|Oct-31-09|| ||gurugulab123: Ithink marshal castled at the wrong time....maybe he shoul hace played Ngex5....pleaze correct me if iam wrong!!|
|Oct-31-09|| ||FSR: Frank 'n' Stein, huh? There's also Hjorvar Stein Gretarsson v. Frank Holzke: H S Gretarsson vs Holzke, 2007|
|Oct-31-09|| ||JohnBoy: Next year, FSR.|
|Oct-31-09|| ||FSR: RookFile is right. Tarrasch beat Marshall +8=8-1 in 1905, Lasker beat Marshall +8=7-0 in 1907, and Capablanca (then virtually unknown) beat Marshall +8=14-1 in 1909. Hell, Marshall only beat EDWARD Lasker by the skin of his teeth in 1923 (+5=9-4). Had Marshall played Fischer, the only question would be whether Fischer would win every game (as he did against Taimanov and Larsen) or Marshall would manage to scrounge a draw or two. Recall that Larsen was a world-class player, who the year before Fischer swept him had played Board 1 in the USSR v. The Rest of the World Match AHEAD of Fischer, and on that board scored +2=1-1 against Spassky and Stein. Larsen had also handed Fischer his only loss in the recent Interzonal.|
|Oct-31-09|| ||FSR: <gurugulab123> The problem with 10...Ngxe5 is that White would win a piece with 11.Nxe5 Bxe5 (or 11...Nxe5) 12.f4. Probably Marshall's best try was 10...Bxf3 11.gxf3 (11.Qxf3 Ncxe5) Be7, when he at least gets to mess up White's pawn structure for the lost pawn.|
|Oct-31-09|| ||Once: I tend to think that we have Marshall mostly for entertainment value. When he gets it right we enjoy an explosion of tactics. But all of the major players took him apart with relative ease. If I could I would invite Marshall and Fischer to dinner for the heated conversation, but I wouldn't expect much by way of a contest if we got the chess set out after the brandy and mints.|
If Grandmasters were films, I reckon Frank Marshall would be Independence Day (the one with aliens!) - all CGI explosions, Will Smith wisecracking and the good ol' US of A saves the world. By contrast, Capablanca would be Citizen Kane, Fischer would be the Godfather and Karpov, Lawrence of Arabia.
Any ideas for Kasparov as a film?
|Oct-31-09|| ||Phony Benoni: Karpov as Lawrence of Arabia? Are you trying to imply that his style is dry?|
Marshall had a few good tussles with Janowski, but he admitted that match play tactics of grimly beating down the opponent's resistance did not appeal to him.
|Oct-31-09|| ||kevin86: A good game for halloween.
TRICK OR TREAT!!!
|Oct-31-09|| ||WhiteRook48: 26...Ke7 27 Qh4+ Ke8 28 Qxd8+|
|Oct-31-09|| ||ROO.BOOKAROO: Interesting matching of historical memories, but all this sounds like historical wheel-spinning. What about the game itself?
Why not 21. ...Ba2? putting pressure on the pinned Bb2 instead of collecting the Na5 and playing Ba2 a move too late? And what's the protective value of 24...c6? at a time when Black's house is afire? Protecting Rd8 and allowing the Q to come to the rescue, abandoning his own attack? Marshall is losing control of the game right there. White's pieces are all well positioned and working towards delivering some crushing blow.|
|Oct-31-09|| ||playground player: Beating on Frank Marshall is like beating on Sir Gawain. In Sir Thomas Malory's "Morte D'Arthur," there's an interesting passage that lists the knights "who had the better of Sir Gawain." These were Sir Lancelot, Sir Tristram, Sir Lamorak, Sir Bors, Sir Pelleas, Sir Marhaus, Sir Gareth, and Sir Percival. (Sir Galahad is not on the list because he had no concern for worldly things, and was in a class by himself.) Sir Gawain had nothing to be ashamed of, in being outclassed by those eight. |
Like Sir Gawain, Marshall was one of the greats, but never the greatest. Nevertheless, throughout his career he was always ranked among the top players in the world and his credentials and career stand on their own merits.
I gather from what I've read by him and about him that Marshall was his own worst enemy on the chessboard. He simply couldn't turn chess excellence into an all-consuming passion: and I think you probably need that to become world champion. Also, he quickly became bored with tedious, fanny-about games, a la Lasker.
I have a feeling that a Marshall-Fischer match would be better than most people expect. I think Fischer would have brought out the best in Marshall. This was something that Marshall, it seems to me, was not always able to do on his own.
But it is his best, on those occasions when it was displayed, that keeps his memory alive.
|Oct-31-09|| ||redmaninaustin: Kasparov would be "Space Odyssey 2001..." - man vs. machine|
|Oct-31-09|| ||20MovesAhead: well, i just saw " Richie Rich" with Macauly Culkin and i remember hearing something about G. Kasparov being the highest-earning chess player of all time...|
|Oct-31-09|| ||FSR: <ROO.BOOKAROO> Marshall was completely lost after losing a piece with 10...0-0?? Your suggestion 21...Ba2 was more aggressive than Marshall's 21...Qxa5 (regaining a little bit of his huge material deficit), but would have been easily parried by 22.Qe4.|
|Nov-01-09|| ||RandomVisitor: 4 minutes per move:
Wilhelm Steinitz - Frank James Marshall
simul Montreal, 1893
[Rybka 3 ]
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2 Ne7 4.Bd3 last book move
[Rybka 3 : 5.Ngf3 g6 6.0-0 Bg7 7.c3 0-0 8.Re1 Re8 9.e5 b6 10.Nf1 Bb7 11.Ne3 h5 12.Ng5 Bh6 13.h4 0.48/20 ]
[Rybka 3 : 5...e5 6.Ngf3 exd4 7.cxd4 dxe4 8.Nxe4 Nf5 9.0-0 Be7 10.Bb5 0-0 11.d5 Nb4 12.Bc4 c6 13.dxc6 Nxc6 14.Re1 h6 15.Bd2 Be6 16.Bxe6 fxe6 17.Qe2 Rc8 18.Bc3= 0.07/19 ]
[Rybka 3 : 6.Ne2 dxe4 7.Bxe4 f5 8.Bc2 Bd6 9.0-0 0-0 10.Nf3 e5 11.dxe5 Ngxe5 12.Nxe5 Nxe5 13.Re1 Qf6 14.Nf4 Re8 15.Bb3+ Kh8 0.51/19 ]
[Rybka 3 : 6...a5 7.a4 dxe4 8.Bxe4 f5 9.Bc2 b6 10.Bd3 Bd6 11.Nf3 0-0 12.0-0 Nce7 13.Re1 Nd5 14.Bb5 h6= 0.09/19 ]
[Rybka 3 : 7.Nf3 exd4 8.Nbxd4 Nxd4 9.Nxd4 Bc5 10.0-0 0-0 11.Re1 dxe4 12.Bxe4 Re8 13.Bd2 c6 14.Qb3 Bd7 15.a4 Qb6 16.a5 Qxb3 17.Nxb3 Bd6 18.a6 b6 19.Nd4 Rac8 20.Rad1 h6 21.f3 0.40/18 ]
[Rybka 3 : 7...Be7 8.Nf3 exd4 9.Nbxd4 Nxd4 10.Nxd4 0-0 11.exd5 Bf6 12.Bc4 Bxd4 13.cxd4 Re8 14.Be3 f5 15.0-0 f4 16.d6+ Be6 17.Bxe6+ Rxe6 18.dxc7 Qxc7 19.Qg4 Re4 20.Rac1 Qf7 21.Bd2 Rxd4 22.Bc3 Rd5= 0.19/19 ]
[Rybka 3 : 8.f4 exf4 9.exd5 Qxd5 10.Be4 Qg5 11.Nf3 Qe7 12.Nc5 Bd7 13.Nxd7 Kxd7 14.0-0 Kc8 15.b4 Kb8 16.Re1 a6 17.Rb1 Nd8 18.b5 Qd6 19.a4 1.30/16 ]
[Rybka 3 : 8...Qd7 9.h4 exd4 10.Nbxd4 0.40/16 ]
9.exd5 0.69/21 Bxd5 0.69/20
10.dxe5 0.46/19 0-0? 2.46/19
[Rybka 3 : 10...Ngxe5 11.Nxe5 Bxe5 12.0-0 0-0 13.f4 Bf6 14.Be3 Qe7 15.Rad1 Rfd8 16.Rfe1 g6 17.Qf2 Bg7 18.Nc5 Rab8 19.c4 Be6 20.Nxe6 fxe6 21.Be4 Rxd1 22.Rxd1 Rd8 23.Rxd8+ Qxd8 24.h3 Qd1+ 25.Kh2 a6 0.46/19 ]
11.Bxg6 1.92/18 Re8? 3.78/18
[Rybka 3 : 11...Nxe5 12.Nxe5 hxg6 13.0-0 Re8 14.f4 b6 15.Rd1 Bb7 16.Nd4 Qe7 17.Ndf3 Rad8 18.Be3 f6 19.Qc4+ Kh7 20.Rd3 Bxe5 21.fxe5 Bxf3 22.gxf3 Qxe5 23.Re1 1.92/18 ]
|Nov-01-09|| ||RandomVisitor: continued:
[Rybka 3 : 12.Bg5 Be7 13.Bxe7 Qxe7 14.Bxh7+ Kxh7 15.Qd3+ g6 16.Qxd5 Rad8 17.Qe4 f5 18.Qh4+ Qxh4 19.Nxh4 Nxe5 20.0-0 Nc4 21.Rab1 b6 22.f4 c5 23.Nf3 Kh6 24.Ng5 Rd3 25.Kf2 Ne3 26.Rbe1 3.78/18 ]
13.Nxe5 2.28/17 Rxe5 2.69/18
14.Be3 2.56/16 Qh4 2.93/19
15.0-0-0 2.73/17 Qa4? 5.05/18
[Rybka 3 : 15...Bxg2 16.Rhg1 Qh3 2.73/17 ]
[Rybka 3 : 16.Rd4 Qc6 17.Na5 Qa6 18.Qxa6 bxa6 19.Nc4 Bxc4 20.Rxc4 5.05/18 ]
[Rybka 3 : 16...g6 17.f4 Bc4 18.Qf3 Re7 19.Rhe1 3.18/18 ]
17.f4 4.36/19 Bc4 4.40/18
18.Qf3 3.53/17 Ra5 4.65/19
[Rybka 3 : 18...Re6 19.f5 Ree8 3.53/17 ]
19.Nxa5 4.45/20 Qxa2+ 4.65/18
20.Kc1 4.65/19 Qa1+ 4.72/18
21.Bb1 4.39/18 Qxa5? 7.03/15
[Rybka 3 : 21...Ba2 22.Qe4 Bxb1 23.Qxb1 Qxa5 24.Qe4 Qb5 25.Rhe1 Re8 26.Qf3 Rb8 27.Qd5 4.39/18 ]
22.Qe4 6.64/14 Ba2? 12.06/14
[Rybka 3 : 22...Bb3 23.Qxh7+ 6.64/14 ]
23.Qxh7+ 5.79/8 Kf8 8.17/15
24.Rd4 6.63/13 c6? 11.61/13
[Rybka 3 : 24...Ke8 25.Bxa2 6.63/13 ]
25.Rhd1 9.90/13 Qc7? #13/7
[Rybka 3 : 25...Bd5 26.Qh8+ 9.90/13 ]
[Rybka 3 : 26.Bxa2 Qa5 #13/7 ]
|Nov-01-09|| ||RandomVisitor: 8.f4! would almost be winning.|
|Nov-01-09|| ||RandomVisitor: Ater 8.f4!
1: Wilhelm Steinitz - Frank James Marshall, simul Montreal 1893
click for larger view
Analysis by Rybka 3 :
[+1.21] d=17 8...dxe4 9.Bxe4 Bd5 00:14:50 143560kN
[+1.24] d=17 8...exf4 9.exd5 Qxd5 10.Be4 Qg5 11.Nf3 Qe7 12.Nc5 Bd7 13.Nxd7 Kxd7 14.0-0 Kc8 15.Re1 a6 16.Qd3 Qd8 17.Bd2 Kb8 18.b4 Qd7 19.Rab1 00:11:42 114348kN
|Nov-01-09|| ||ComboKal: <Once> I think Kasparov is the Godfather, and Fischer is Gone With The Wind! |
Before I get bombarded with comments, I'm refering to his reclusiveness and dissapearance from the game, not his death.
|Jan-12-11|| ||redorc19: <Once et al> Chess players as movies: Morphy is 2012 (such unlikely sucess) Kasparov is Die Hard ( hard core action) Fischer is No Country for Old Men, Karpov is Harry Potter 7 Part 1 (slow and continuously setting up the big picture) and Capablanca is Primal Fear (the only movie coming to mind).|
|Jun-24-11|| ||VladimirOo: Kasparov: Rocky I, II, III (for his matches against Karpov) ;
Karpov: Usual Suspects (Sneaky devilish strategies) ;
Korchnoi : Heat (one on one die hard fight, no system, no trust, no peace) ;
Fischer: North By Northwest (alone against the system and Spy plots) ;
Larsen : Playtime by Tati (excentric situations and plans) ;
Spassky : From Russia with Love (not only for the game but also for the seducing male character of his) ;
Tal : A Matter of Life and Death (for his tragic and witty life) ;
Smyslov : Stalker by Tarkovsky (sublime and mystical) ;
Botvinnik : Metropolis by Fritz Lang (the conflit between science and art) ;
Keres : The Pianist by Polanski (An artist, a man of great humanity in middle of chaos and barbary) ;
Alekhine : White Hunter Black Heart by Clint Eastwood (gifted, ambitious, but obstinated until too late) ;
Rubinstein : Death in Venise by Visconti (refined, passion leading to madness) ;
Steinitz : The Seventh Seal (the ultimate game against death) ;|
|May-04-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: Guess-the-Move Final Score:
Steinitz vs Marshall, 1893.
YOU ARE PLAYING THE ROLE OF STEINITZ.
Your score: 54 (par = 47)
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