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Edward Mackenzie Jackson vs Frank James Marshall
"Fire Marshall" (game of the day Jan-07-13)
London (1899)  ·  Bishop's Opening: Berlin Defense (C24)  ·  0-1
To move:
Last move:

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 9 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-11-06  Hudson Hawk: I stand corrected, at least two of the posts are not off topic. My bad.
Jan-11-06  logo: AdrianP, i think you're right.
Jan-11-06  ChessVip: quite easy to found just 1 sec for me
Jan-11-06  noone2: I like this combo, and I think these types of mating themes are a Marshall trademark. I am talking about striking moves that involving multi-take scenarios all of which lead to overwhelming advantage or mate.

Take for example this game and Marshall-Lewitsky. I've seen others posted as problems with the same idea. Marshall seems to have a knack to spot/conceive of these moves where others would overlook them because they seem too fantastic.

Jan-11-06  yoshi927: I don't see where this line can go. What does he play off of Rf4+, could somebody tell me?
Jan-11-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  LIFE Master AJ: <JohnBoy>

You may saw (or think) what you like. But he practically begged to be shown up. Go back and read my original post.

I said, "Maybe I should do a page on <The combinations of Marshall>, and this should be the first one?" (How could this hurt anyone's feelings?)

< And he came back with the HYPER-critical: <"This problem is way too easy for a page on the tactical genius Marshall. You can do much better. Marshall would have solved this problem instantaneously with seeing it."> >

Anyway you slice it, he went out of his way to be confrontational, insulting ... and just plain nasty.

I used the FACTS to ... (let us say) "enlighten him." End of story.

And to be real frank (and completely honest), if you do not have anything positive to add, you are only making things worse.

Jan-11-06  PizzatheHut: <LIFE Master AJ><And to be real frank (and completely honest), if you do not have anything positive to add, you are only making things worse.>

Anyone else find this statement ironic and hypocritical of LMAJ?

Jan-11-06  hayton3: <LIFE Master AJ> <Anyway you slice it, he went out of his way to be confrontational, insulting ... and just plain nasty.>

Not at all he was simply pointing out that this puzzle which you proceeded to put on the high altar of chess masterpieces is perhaps not as complex as you may have thought.

You take things way to personally Mr Goldsby

Jan-11-06  JustAFish: I didn't get this one.

After seeing 1... Rf4 immediately, because 2. gxf4 allows 2. Bf2#, I noticed that 2. Bxf4 presented some complications.

From that point forward, I tried to figure out a way to coax white into into the g3 pawn while there was no black rook on f2 to block the bishop mate. I couldn't find such a path. So I tried f4 instead, thinking that it would eventually lead to a passed pawn. When I couldn't make that work, I gave up.

I'm sort of frustrated that I was so dogmatically attached to delivering mate with the Bishop.

Jan-11-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: I happened to solve this rather quickly. :)

First, I noticed that the white king is immobilized. This means that any check that cannot be blocked or captured is mate. So, naturally, one looks at checks.

Black can check with either rook, but 30...Rf4+ opens attack lines for the black bishop after the f4 rook is captured (either by 31. gxf4 or Bxf4), after which mate by the bishop is unstoppable.

Jan-11-06  Averageguy: I missed this, I considered 30...Rf4+ but gave up on it because I couldn't see any reply to 31.gxf4, completely missing that the f2 square was vacated for the bishop.
Jan-11-06  hayton3: <JustAFish> I was about to say that you are an AJ clone but I noticed you've kibitzed a number of times - my apologies :)
Jan-11-06  Dim Weasel: <McCool> Me too :(
Jan-11-06  Averageguy: <LMAJ><Then I looked at the (VERY simple) idea of 30...Re4+; 31.g4, (This move is forced, interposing the Bishop loses to ...Rfxf4+!) followed by 31...Rg2; winning at least the exchange> Your analysis is wrong, after 30...Re4+ 31.Bf4 Rfxf4+ allows white to escape with 32.g4. The simple 31...Be7# decides the game.
Jan-11-06  EmperorAtahualpa: I was thinking of 30...Re8, but the move actually played is much better of course.

The best defense against 30...Re8 is 31.Rd8, right?

Jan-11-06  EmperorAtahualpa: <Anyway you slice it, he [notyetaGM] went out of his way to be confrontational, insulting ... and just plain nasty.>

<LIFE Master AJ> I think you're being overly suspicious. Not everybody is here just to make a fight with you, AJ.

NotyetaGM just voiced his opinion that there are more brilliant combinations Marshall has played throughout his career (which I agree with).

Jan-11-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  beenthere240: It's similar in some ways to a 2 mover composed problem (except that the key move is never a check) in that, however white responds, black wins in a pleasing, balanced way.
Jan-11-06  Dim Weasel: <beenthere240> I have put into Dim_Weasel chessforum a problem (number 4) where white has to choose the key from thirty checking moves (according to my source, haven't checked). It is an exception, of course.

I also think this would be 3 mover.

Jan-11-06  limelight: <yoshi927> After Rf4+ white only has three replies, all of which lead to mate.

31 gxf4 Bf2#
31 g4 Bf2#
31 Bxf4 Be7+ 32 Bg5 Bxg5#

Jan-11-06  The17thPawn: <Calli> Do you mean 29.Rhe1? I don't see a white rook on the e-file on move 29. Also could you elaborate on how this would deter black if he responded 29...Kxg6 anyway as in the game. I have always enjoyed any analysis you've been willing to share and would appreciate a response to my query if your so inclined.
Jan-11-06  aroyni: I found a another solution to this puzzle which is rather more complicated but still works: 30... Re7
And then it's mate in 7 if white plays 31. g4

Jan-11-06  klausewitz: Posts like this from limelight are fantastic! Short and right to the point. Thanks.
Jan-11-06  JustAFish: <hayton3> I'm somewhat confused as to why it would appear that I am a clone of LMAJ. I will refrain from extensive comment, except to note that:

a) I am undoubtedly a far worse chessplayer than LMAJ, and...

b) Politally speaking I'm, uh, somewhat different from him.

Jan-11-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: I missed it! My move was 30...Rf4+ which can be parried by g4-black can't mate as the rook is in the way,The text allows for three mating variations:

31 g4 Bf2#
31 gxf4 Bf2#
31 Bxf4 Be7+ 32 Bg5 Bxg5#

Jan-11-06  yoshi927: <limelight> Thanks. My problem was I never saw Bf2#. The opposite of JustAFish, I never gave any thought to a bishop mate. If I had I might've solved it.
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