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Sidney Johnston vs Frank James Marshall
Chicago (1899)  ·  Queen's Gambit Declined: Queen's Knight Variation (D31)  ·  1-0
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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 5 ·  Later Kibitzing>
May-18-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  LIFE Master AJ: <Kevin86> Its interesting ... that BOTH White's and Black's Knights here died at their respective "King's Knights' Three" square.
May-18-11  castle dweller: Hey LMAJ,

I was just curious - about how many books are there on Marshall, either by him or by others?

May-18-11  Funicular: Patriot: since in most cases the defender has only one option--move the king

Umm.... "most cases"? actually theres no other choice in a double check but to move the king!

Only knights and bishops can trigger a double check, the first one involving themselves checking the king and the second one by clearing the line for a rook or the queen (or another bishop, as such is this case) to check the king as well. Of course, you can't capture 2 pieces or block 2 check lines in 1 single move.

This is a common attacking / mating pattern and every chessplayer should be familiarized with it.

May-18-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  Patriot: <Funicular> When I made the statement I was thinking moving the king vs. moving the king and capturing one of the checking pieces as two separate things. You're right of course. The king must be moved! Thanks for the correction.
May-18-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  LIFE Master AJ: <<<May-18-11 castle dweller:> Hey LMAJ,>

I was just curious - about how many books are there on Marshall, either by him or by others?>

I have several, but one is in German ... which I don't read. (I am not sure of the other, it looks to be maybe Russian or Cyrillic ... someone mailed that book to me.)

*** *** ***

(Books in English.)

Reprint - "My Fifty Years of Chess." [I also have a copy of the original HB book ... signed by the old man (Marshall) himself ... I purchased it on EBAY a few years ago.]

Soltis's book on Marshall. (Very nice, its a hardback. Been autographed by Soltis as well.)

I also have the afore-mentioned book on "Young Marshall" (hard-back) by Hilbert.

I used to have a cheezy paperback, it was something like "Quick Knock-outs" by Marshall. (I don't remember if he played all of these or just helped to edit the collection ... I misplaced that book YEARS ago.)

May-18-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: <Funicular> Well said. I've been wracking my brains for the past five minutes but I can't think of a way to escape a double check except by moving the king.

But I think we can add a couple of other pieces to the list of pieces which can trigger a double check. Rooks and pawns can do it too, as in this example:


click for larger view

White can create a double check with a pawn by playing 1. cxb5+ and a double check with a rook by 1. Rf6+.

But I'm pretty sure that you can't trigger a double check with a king or queen.

At the risk of being too silly, there is a way to move one piece and give double check by two different pieces. In this position, black has just played 1...b5


click for larger view

Now white plays 2. cxb6 (en passant) And miraculously black is in check from the white bishop and rook.

May-18-11  JohnBoy: <seven ... Did you see 1...Bxe8 2. Qf8# as in a Novotny> Yes - I saw it. But it is not a Novotny because not EVERY way to defend against a specific mate obstructs a defense against a different one. That's what is illustrated by my counter-example. By taking the rook with the queen, black's queen is distracted from defense of f6. Not obstructed. Hence "overworked".
May-18-11  eightsquare: I got the solution in about 5-10 minutes. First i ruled out hxg3, the obvious capture cause its aiming at the king. I knew it had to be a double check move or at least a knight move, but Nf6 didn't produce any results. Then i came up with Ne7+ folled by Ng6! the descisive opening of the h-file. The rest was simple.
May-18-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  sevenseaman: <JohnBoy> You have been very patient with me. I had the definition of a <Novotny> from the Wiki as;

In a Novotny 'A white piece is sacrificed on a square where it could be taken by two different black pieces - <whichever black piece makes the capture, it interferes with the other.> It is essentially a Grimshaw brought about by a white sacrifice on the critical square.'

In our example if the Bishop takes the R it blocks the Black Q but when the R is taken by the Black Q, the Q does not block the B but only gets "overworked" in protecting the B. So not a <Novotny>.

I am sure you will understand my need to seek clarity. I am more confident now, thanks to you.

May-18-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  sevenseaman: That is well clarified <Once> I had my goat in a tizzy as I too thought when under a double check the K cannot but move.
May-18-11  squaresquat: Marshall vs. Johnston. Sounds like kin to Albert Sidney Johnston. Weeks back was the 150 anniversary Of the battle of Pittsburgh Landing. 110,000 fought each other leaving 23000 killed&wounded.In war, like chess, time is currency. Grant used time to drill rather than entrench.The Rebel army emerged from the swamps of north Mississippi to attack an unfortified encampment along the Tennessee river.
May-18-11  squaresquat: the world is so filled with wonderful things,we can all be as happy as kings.but the world is so filled with horrible stuff its probably best to give up and puff.
May-18-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  fm avari viraf: After a wary glance, I could immediately figure out that a double check can bring the curtains down! So 15.Ne7++ Kh8 16.Ng6+ hxg6 17.hxg3+ Qh4 18.Rxh4# Usually, I see just puzzles on Mondays & Tuesdays.
May-18-11  takchess: <Seven S> that Nezh-Kotkov puzzle is quite famous. I've seen it in CT-Art and Sharpen Your Tactics. Do you know of any where else it appears? Unsure why I care about this sort of thing but I do. 8)
May-18-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  estrick: <...in Staunton's "the chess player's handbook" (1847) ... little gems in a section on the laws of the game:>

A couple of months ago I was playing in a tournament and had a pawn on the 7th rank. When it was my move, I picked up a queen and placed it on the 8th rank, one square in front of the pawn, and then removed the pawn from the board. My opponent protested that what I had done was illegal. He insisted that I must first move the pawn to the 8th rank, then declare what piece I would like to convert it to, then remove the pawn, and finally place my new piece on the board.

The TD was called over, and agreed that I had made an illegal move. I insisted that if it was 'touch move' I had touched a queen, and they couldn't not let me have one. The adjudication was to award my opponent with a few more minutes on the clock (can't remember the amount).

While technically he was right, I think the court of public opinion was not in his favor. Everyone there thought he was a jerk, and hoped I would win. Unfortunately, his antics did succeed in rattling me. I instantly found both of my queens and a rook simultaneously en prise, and did not play the next few moves well. When the dust settled, I was only up a minor piece, and he had counter play, which turned the game into a long drawn out affair.

May-18-11  MaczynskiPratten: <old coot>, <LMAJ>; a worse scenario at the game's conclusion is the one mentioned by Bill Hartston in "How to Cheat at Chess". A Bulgarian offered a draw in his native language; his Mongolian opponent thought he must be resigning and shook his outstretched hand. At the end of the match a furious argument broke out when the two captains realised the discrepancy in their team sheets. Hartston claims, probably apocryphally, that the dispute was resolved by the Bulgarian captain "Did you ever know a Bulgarian to shake hands with a man who just defeated him?", so everyone agreed to call it a draw...
May-18-11  Dr. J: Still more ways to double-check


click for larger view

And YES, IT IS POSSIBLE to double check with 2 Queens or with 2 Rooks!

Solution to be posted shortly.

May-18-11  squaresquat: This game is why we love knights.
May-18-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  dzechiel: <<estrick> The TD was called over, and agreed that I had made an illegal move.>

Back in my TD days I would have told your opponent to suck it up. What a bunch of baloney! Too bad you didn't win.

May-18-11  ZUGZWANG67: 15.Ne7++ Kh8 16.Ng6+ hxg6 17.hxg3+ mates. The power of both the bishop along the a2/g8 diagonal and the double check deadly combine!

-------------

Black played to the end!!

May-18-11  ZUGZWANG67: More often than not when Black plays his QN before his c-pawn he gets in trouble. Of course, there always the Chigorin, but in that case he usually plays ...e5 in one move; not two! Could the fact that the game was played more than 100 years ago explain for such an inacuracy?

Also, I'm wondering how one can even think of short castling when he's playing as to trade everything on g3 and so, help White clear the path in front of his KR!?

May-18-11  The17thPawn: Never heard of this Johnson fellow but anyone who can draw Pillsbury and play Marshall damn near even is a real player.
May-18-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: <Once>, <et al.>: For the double check via en passant, see G Gundersen vs A H Faul, 1928

For an announced mate gone wrong, see C Golmayo vs Loyd, 1867. After <29.Ra3>:


click for larger view

Loyd announced mate in 8: <29...Ra1+ 30.Rxa1 Qg5+ 31.Kb1 Nd2+ 32.Kc1 Nb3+ 33.Kb1 Qc1+ 34.Rxc1 Nd2+ 35.Ka2 Ra8+ 36.Qa4 Rxa4#. Faced with this, his opponent resigned.

However, after <33...Qc1+>:


click for larger view

White can avoid immediate mate with 34.Ka2! The issue eventually went to an appeals committee, which ruled that the resignation stood.

May-18-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  DarthStapler: Got it
May-18-11  alachabre: Discovered checks are always sweet, and add a double-check on top, and it's even sweeter. A leisurely review of the knight's options after its first free move reveals the topping on the treat: a second discovered check that's saved under the counter as a nice surprise.

15. Ne7++ Kh7
16. Ng6+ hxg6
17. hxg3+

Yummy.

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