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Emanuel Lasker vs Frank James Marshall
Lasker - Marshall World Championship Match (1907), New York, NY USA, rd 2, Jan-29
French Defense: Classical. Swiss Variation (C11)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Feb-10-04  ughaibu: Ronnel: Sorry, I dont understand what you mean(?) This game was somewhat controversial as it was believed that Marshall missed a win, I think subsequent analysis favours Lasker but for the result to be in doubt in this way illustrates that both players showed good judgement and highlights the degree of complication they were willing to embark on.
Feb-10-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  Calli: Ughaibu, Marshall's reply is forced, psychologically speaking. Lasker has challenged his attacking reputation and he can't back down. But Lasker has already calculated that the attack fails. Game over! I hardly think Marshall showed "good judgement" when he apparently lost the game on move 18.
Feb-10-04  ughaibu: This is one of the matches discussed in a book entitled Classical Chess Matches. A position from later in the game is scrutinised, some commentators had claimed a win for Marshall. If the outcome of the game is unclear even in post mortem analysis it's difficult to accept that it was clear during the game. You could as well say Marshall had lost at move 1 of the first game because he was playing Lasker. When I'm in the mood I'll look through some Marshall games for an example of him resisting his tendency to feel honour bound to attack.
Feb-10-04  ughaibu: Calli: Can you explain why Qg4 was a weak continuation and what would have been a strong line for white?
Feb-10-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  Calli: Are you saying a psychological move must be weak? I think they are seperate terms. A move could be psychological and not weak. Or any combination. In this case, the normal course is 18.Rfe1, but Lasker knew Marshall could not resist the sacrifice.
Feb-10-04  ughaibu: I dont say a psychological move must be weak, my involvement in this arguement began with Catfriend saying that Lasker and Tal often chose inferior continuations for psychological reasons, I dont believe that so I'd like to see examples.
Feb-11-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  Calli: Speaking of Lasker only, I would say that he didn't make weak moves intentionally. That even sounds silly to say. Rather he sought a double-edged continuation, as in this game, which he was fairly sure which path his opponent would take by knowing their tendencies. Of course, seeking complications like will inevitably lead to some weak moves (by Lasker). Additionally, I do believe there is a weakness in his game in certain quiet positions in early middle game. He doesn't make the transition very well and gets in trouble. Most of my great escapes collection are like that.
Feb-11-04  ughaibu: Calli: I certainly have no problems with the first part of your post and I dont feel familiar enough with his games to comment on the second part. I'll take a closer look at those in your collection.
Feb-11-04  drukenknight: to follow up on what Calli is saying, sometimes you can see Lasker makes moves that dont quite look right. Knowing what we do today about certain structural weaknessesses they seem obvious. As good examples, look at the games that Steinitz wins. Usually it is because of some odd positional problem, not a combination. In contrast look at the games of Euwe who almost always puts pieces on good spots, he might overlook a combo though.
Feb-11-04  ughaibu: Drukenknight: Capablanca and Fischer played a different kind of chess than that played by Lasker and Tal. If both players play "correct" moves then the game will likely be a draw and in any case boring, it's no coincidence that both Capablanca and Fischer thought chess was played out and promoted variants. Lasker and Tal were very successful, the idea that only theoretically correct play is viable or even best is contradicted by their success. This is the point also about Kaspaov-Radjabov.
Feb-11-04  Benjamin Lau: Anand vs Karpov, 1996 is another good example. Correctness is often determined by time.
Mar-01-08  Knight13: Marshall DID seem to have an upper hand at first, though. But that g7-pawn proved too much.
May-01-09  ScorpionInstinct: If 19.Qxg7 is psychological why not grab 20.Qxh7 as well? Cos that would lose, while grabbing g7 wins.
Aug-15-09  ughaibu: What if black plays 19....Nd2?
Aug-15-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: <ughaibu>:


click for larger view

If 19...Nd2 20.Nxd2 Rg8 21.Nf4 and Black must trade queens or release the mate threat on g2.

Aug-15-09  ughaibu: How about Qd6?
Aug-15-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: 21...Qd6 22.Qf7 seems OK. White's up a piece, so he doesn't mind giving back the ♘f4 to slow down the attack. And if then 22...Qxf4 23.Rad1 Qg5 24.g3 follwed by 25.Nf3, and it looks like White is consolidating.
Aug-15-09  ughaibu: Okay, but what about Rg6, instead of Qg5? Black is then threatening both Rdg8 and Ne5.
Aug-15-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: Okay, my powers of blindfold analysis have been exhausted. Let's have another diagram:


click for larger view

This is after 19...Nd2 20.Nxd2 Rg8 21.Nf4 Qd6 22.Qf7 Qxf4 23.Rad1 Rg6, when Black has ideas like 24...Ne5 or 24...Rdg8. Perhaps White can defend with 24.Kh1, eliminating some of Black's tricks, or maybe play 24.Rfe1, hoping to trade a pair of rooks. Frankly, I'm more of a Marshall-style player anyway, and would rather find <his> moves! Let someone else find Lasker's defenses.

I think it's probably true that this line is no worse than the one chosen by Marshall in the game. Whether he has compensation for the pawn is beyond my powers.

Aug-15-09  ughaibu: If you set your viewer to Sjkbase, then you can move the pieces. It's a great convenience and I'm surprised that so few members take advantage. Anyway, thanks for the analysis, I'm off to bed.
Aug-17-09  Resignation Trap: I've looked at <ughaibu>'s suggestions of 19...Nd2 and 23...Rg6, and they look excellent. My analysis runs (from <Phony Benoni>'s last diagram) 24.Rfe1 Ne5! 25.Qe7 Rdg8 26.Qc5+ Nc6 27.Qd5 Nb4! 28.Qc4+ Kb8


click for larger view

and it looks like White is busted.

I'll look at 24.Kh1 later.

Dec-30-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  GrahamClayton: <Resignation Trap>I'll look at 24.Kh1 later.

<Resignation Trap>,
24.♔h1 ♕g5 25.g3 ♘e5 24.♕b3 f4 seems pretty strong for Black - what should White play now?

Was 31...h4 a blunder? It seems that centralising the King with 31..♔d7 seems a more sensible idea.

Feb-19-13  vinidivici: <Benjamin Lau: Anand vs Karpov, 1996 is another good e

xample. Correctness is often determined by time.> Yes, I gave some lines of that game from various resources.

<Calli:Here is a real psych game. Lasker plays 18.Qg4+ Marshall could play Qe6, but, of course, he will gambit the g7 pawn. He says oksy Marshall I'll give you an open file. Go ahead attack me.>

lolol....Your words are very exact to explain the Lasker move 18.Qg4+.

18.Qg4 is a brave move and lured Marshall to be aggressive but in some way not a very accurate moves.

Noted that Marshall is a player who is very aggressive and all about attacking, so from a practical standpoint, it is wiser to play him more quietly, but Lasker who, we know was a brave player, didnt take it half-heartedly. Instead he gave Marshall a full challenge in what he loved to do but met his demise in it also.

That differentiate the world champions and the rest.

Feb-06-15  poorthylacine: VINIDIVICI:

I agree, but not for all world champions; only for Lasker, Alekhine and for Karpov , not including however his terrible 1984 match.

Aug-06-15  Volcach: Marshall's knights are helpless in both the championship games I've looked at.
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