< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 5 OF 5 ·
|Mar-25-12|| ||Patriot: <<newzild> ...In this case we needed to see the queen sac on f8 to "demonstrate that the initial move is correct".> Thanks for bringing this up! What about other candidates that might refute the whole line? For example, 22...Nc2? It's a counter-threat on the queen but I don't see a lot of comments on that line either. I fell into a mate in that line: 23.Rxd7?? Na3+! and mate next. 23.Nxd7 Nxb4 24.Rxb4 . So it seems each and every counter-threat must be resolved.|
|Mar-25-12|| ||gofer: This one I really liked.
After a few minutes I saw <22 Nb6> and thought "that's a pretty natural
move, not sure why this is a Sunday level puzzle".
Then after a while I saw black's replies <22 ... Nb3> and the deadly <22 ... Ne2!>
and thought "OMG its a spoiler! If I play the natural move, I am walking into
a check mate - Cool!!! So I need to find a better move."
Then after a while more I couldn't find a better move for white and started to wonder
about whether I could counteract both of black's replies <22 ... Nb3> and <22 ... Ne2!>
Finally, I saw it! <23 Qf8+> and then this puzzle had it all.
The <GOOT>, The Counter-<GOOT> and then a Queen Sac thrown in for good measure.
Now that's what I call a Sunday! Thanks <CG>!!
Wow, a miss by Short.
|Mar-25-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: Cool. A Short puzzle!
Having spent a fair bit of time on the straight-forward 22. Nb6 and realizing that it doesn't work, I'm going to make my answer <22. a3> with the threat of 23. Nb6 and if <22...b5 23. Qxb5> will at the very least win a pawn.
Btw, here is why 22. Nb6 doesn't work
22. Nb6 Ne2! [22...Nb3? (praying for 23. Nxd7?? Rc1+ mating) 23. Qxb3 with a decisive material advantage; 22...Rxb6 23. Qxb6 wins the exchange] 23. Qe1! (only move as 23. Bxe2?? Qxd1+ 24. Bxd1 Rc1#; 23. Nxd7?? Rc1+ mating) 23...Rxb6 24. Rxe2 (forced as 24. Rxd7? Rxb2+ and Black has a draw at the very least) 24...Qf5+ or 24...Qc6/b5 and Black is more active.
|Mar-25-12|| ||gofer: <<sevenseaman:> <"23.Qf8+ wins in all variations"> is really balmy...>|
Do you really mean <soothing>? or did you mean <barmy>...
|Mar-25-12|| ||gofer: <LTJ>: the problem with <22 Nb6 Ne2 23 Qe1> is <23 ... Qxd1+> mating!|
|Mar-25-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: Wow! It's so interesting: while considering 22. Nb6 Ne2, I considered 23. Re8+ so as to discoordinate Black, but quickly saw that 23...Qxe8 when White must resign.|
Had I just, for fun, tried 23. Qf8+ - I would have solved this puzzle.
I found the game continuation though and it is a solid move that keeps all sorts of threats alive. Therefore, 0.25 out of 1 for today seems fair.
My streak ends today having solved 14 straight. And I end the week with 6.25 out of 7.
|Mar-25-12|| ||LoveThatJoker: <gofer> Thanks for sharing: you are right in saying that 22. Nb6 Ne2 23. Qe1 Qxd1+ mates. |
|Mar-25-12|| ||al wazir: <Once: Today we have an example of what is known as a syllogism. A delightful piece of false logic where two true statements are improperly connected to form a third untrue statement.> I hope you're not under the impression that all syllogisms are "false logic."|
If you think deductive reasoning is head-spinning, what about inductive reasoning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induct...)? The statement "All crows are black" is logically equivalent to "All non-black entities are non-crows." Hence you can prove or disprove the proposition in either of two ways: You can examine the set of crows one by one and verify that each one is indeed black, or you can examine the set of non-black objects one by one and verify that each one is not a crow.
Of course it is impossible in practice to check every single member of either set. All you can do is collect evidence that *tends* to confirm the proposition, provided you don't encounter any exceptions. The more cases you check, the stronger the confirmation. This is how scientists accumulate support for theories, which, however, are never completely proven beyond any shadow of doubt.
To put this in a chess context, the proposition "I would beat any GM in the world" is equivalent to "Any non-grandmaster can beat me." And I find support for it every time I play.
|Mar-25-12|| ||mikmik777: White to play: 22.?
Short vs Miles
I can't see any any other candidate move aside from:
22.Nb6 [forking the queen and c8-rook]
23.Qxb6 Nb3 [trap, 24.Rxd7 Rc1 mate]
|Mar-25-12|| ||sevenseaman: <gofer> Of course I meant soothing, like it is used in describing weather. I was delighted my small step was in the right direction after all.|
Excellent job on the POTD today. You have the depth of analysis to get this difficult one. A real good find by <CG> to round off an up and down week.
|Mar-25-12|| ||Limpin Kt: <alwazir> great post man :) it seems you do have grip over the reasoning logic! Good work!|
|Mar-25-12|| ||Memethecat: No time, so quick guess
22Rde1 & at some point Qxb7 Qd8. Qxc6 Rxc6
Mmm, hoy no cigaro
|Mar-25-12|| ||Jimfromprovidence: As a practical matter I would still play 22 a3 here. |
click for larger view
This move requires little calculation; it keeps black's knight pinned, eliminating the threat of 22...Ne2 and any back rank mate threats. It also sets up the forcing sequence of text moves that leave white up two pawns after 28 Qxb7.
click for larger view
|Mar-25-12|| ||James D Flynn: My first thought was 22.Nb6 forks Q and R but opens possibilities of back rank mate on c1 for Black by either Nb3 or Ne2. If 22.Nb6 Nb3 23.Qxb3 defends the R on d1 and holds everything while still forking Q and R, Rxb6 is simply answered by Rxd7 and White remains a R up. Therefore 22.Nb6 Ne2 now 23.Bxe2 Qxd1+ 24.Bxd1 Rc1# is no good but White has the surprising 23.Qf8+ if Kxf8 24.Nxd7+ Kg8 25.Nxf6+ gxf6 26.Bxe2 and White is piece and a pawn up. If 23….. Rxf8 24,Nxd7 and the N on e2 has only one escape to g1 but then 25.bb5 threatens both the Black rooks and the N and White will emerge with 2 rooks for 2 pieces and an easy win. Alright White will win the exchange , Black has 2 ways to lose it 22. Qf5 pining the White R or Rxb6. 22…….Qf5 23.Nxc8 Nxc8 24.Rxd4 and White has won a piece. 22…….Rxb6 23.Qxb6 Rd8 24.Bb5 Qf5 25.Qxb7 Qxf3 26.Re8+ Rxe8 27.Qxf3 Nxf3 28.Bxe8 and White is up 2pawns and the exchange with an easy endgame win.|
|Mar-25-12|| ||Patriot: <<al wazir> ...To put this in a chess context, the proposition "I would beat any GM in the world" is equivalent to "Any non-grandmaster can beat me."> The word, "would", throws me off a bit. If you mean "could" then I'd say the two statements are not equivalent. If you are the chess engine, Houdini, then you cannot be beaten by any non-grandmaster.|
<And I find support for it every time I play.> You are way too modest!
|Mar-25-12|| ||Limpin Kt: <sevenseaman> how do you refute <Re5> i know i'm missing something, but couldn't figure out what i'm missing. Please help.|
|Mar-25-12|| ||James D Flynn: Hi newzid, we didn't a;ll miss Qf8+ : shortly after your post both gofer and I caught this resource and posted it. What time do you guys get up anyway? Maybe if you didn't start at midnight and got a good night's sleep you would catch these little tricks.|
|Mar-25-12|| ||sevenseaman: <<Limpin Kt> <<sevenseaman> how do you refute <Re5> i know i'm missing something, but couldn't figure out what i'm missing. Please help.>>>|
Perhaps you are missing that Black Q is pinned to its K by the White Q.
1...Rxe5 2. dxe5 and the Black Q unable to move except along a2-g8 diagonal, comes under one more pressure of the R. Now it is forced to exchange w/o compensation and Black loses.
|Mar-25-12|| ||dragon player: It's sunday today. An insane puzzle to compensate for a
22.Nb6 seems to win an exchange, but I think
is causing trouble.
I don't really see a good candidate move which could be
the solution. Time to check.
It seems my move was right, but since I missed almost
everything, I don't give myself a point. Maybe a bit more
confidence next time, since it seems I am able to spot
the right move.
4/7. Could be better.
|Mar-25-12|| ||viking78: I see 22.Nb6 Nc2 23.Qxf8+ Rxf8 24.Nxd7 Rfc8 25.Nxf6+ gxf6 (looks stronger then Rxf6) 26.Bd3 and White looks to pick up the Knight, but maybe is a better response for black then what I saw in my line, not sure of all that this was what happened in the game... time to check.|
|Mar-25-12|| ||chrisowen: Again basking to the wall is tony ground for nb6 elex6 om it qxb6, in form it qa4 b3 white in haste molten feed in queen and light the fuse! |
Nip inflate his ego what if find game leg in b6 a log shaping for castle
instead off tenet it rookxb6 harbour queen jacket a4a3 why not ne2 crow
man see queen threat d7xd1 mate has ties indicate (be2 qxd1 be1 rc1+#).
Ordain tree for rc8 elevates the ring one finish it off in kc4 give
manage in rise it her buying nay it nb6 in somber dawning beached fag
for anthony rd8 would have sufficed.
Tempt it he in e2 and i don't see an escape for white rook law old
children chime rain sun or shine.
Hindsight it the landing corridor emancipate reason fake got it qf8 eat
death in king or must it chin low rookc8 bouncing over black it lain
una-bashed in piece to the wind.
Elucidate aint a3 nigel smoothed over una-bridged rope rascal electric
for nb6 angel in disguise also pa3 man flight it.
Re4 set the trap in ergo... rc8 in ferret it arouse in felt the need for
blacks lump delicate in palm or d8 moven scurry it favour in c8 little
feint it scoop in a3 coughin glad a b6 in risky it ne2 in flutter?
|Mar-25-12|| ||hedgeh0g: Couldn't have put it better myself.|
|Mar-25-12|| ||chrisowen: <hedgehog> Paint it a3 in d8 alive infer!|
|Mar-25-12|| ||efvaatn: Didn't see a3!!!!!!!!|
|Mar-25-12|| ||M.Hassan: "Insane" White to play 22.?
White is a pawn up.
I tried a move with the Knight after long thinking:
Two lines may happen:
White is a whole Rook+pawn up
<if ....Rxc8 26.Re8+ Rxe8 27.Rxe8#>
Again White is a whole Rook+pawn up.
Time to check
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