< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Dec-07-07|| ||DukeAlba: Actually.... I see now. White is trying to threaten black's knight which, black cannot defend without losing both the knight and the queen without moving the knight. When black moves the knight it in turn opens up oppurtubities fo white to attack black's king.|
|Dec-07-07|| ||zooter: <Jimfromprovidence Take a look at the simple but elegant 32 Qf5, threatening mate next move. I think after 32Ö Qxe2+ 33 Kh3 black cannot stop mate.>|
After 30.Qg5 Nc6 31.Rh4 Qe8 32.Qf5 Qg6! still saves the day for black
|Dec-07-07|| ||Kruglov: <zooter: After 30.Qg5 Nc6 31.Rh4 Qe8 32.Qf5 Qg6! still saves the day for black> 33.Qxg6, h7 pawn is pinned, so the black queen is defenseless. And mate in one follows.|
|Dec-07-07|| ||zooter: <Kruglov> oops, sorry about that...after going too much into a position; the simple moves don't occur to the mind :)|
|Dec-07-07|| ||Jimfromprovidence: <zooter> <After 30.Qg5 Nc6 31.Rh4 Qe8 32.Qf5 Qg6! still saves the day for black.>|
Notice that the h pawn is pinned, so if 32Ö Qg6 itís mate in two moves for white. The continuation is 33 Qxg6; then after black's move it's 34 Rxh7++
|Dec-07-07|| ||zenpharaohs: 30 Qg5 Nc6
31 Rh4 Qe8
32 Qf5 Qg6??
White to mate because the pawn cannot retake. The mate can be given as Qxh7, Rxh6, Qxh5, Rxh5, or Qxg7 depending on which poison Black chooses.
So 32 ... Qg6 is not so good for Black
|Dec-07-07|| ||patzer2: For today's three star difficulty problem, White plays 30. Qg5! to threaten the Knight on e7 (overloading pieces two against one) and deflect it away from it's key defensive post in order to carry out a decisive attack against the resulting weakened castled position.|
Timman made it very easy for Miles with after 30...Ng6 31. Qxg6, when the quick finish is 31...hxg6 32. Rh4#.
As <syracrophy> notes, if 30...Nc6 <31.Rh4! (with the nasty threat 32.Rxh7+! Kxh7 33.Qh5#) Qf7 34.Qh6! is decisive.> Play from there could continue <34. Qh6!> 34...Qf5 (34...Qd5 35. e4! ) 35. e4! Qg6 36. Qxg6 .
|Dec-07-07|| ||kevin86: I found the "perfect" move Rh4-of course parried by Qf5. Failed again,next case!|
I am so bad this week that I could spend a million dollars on lottery tickets and get a 50 cent prize. Or put a quarter in a parking meter and get three lemons instead of 60 minutes.
|Dec-07-07|| ||UdayanOwen: I think this post is pretty much a complete analysis of the puzzle solution.|
As many people understand, 30...Nc6 doesn't work. In this line 31.Rh4 wins in all variations. The threat is 32.Rxh7 Kxh7 33.Qh5#. Black has three tries.
If 31...Qf7 (guarding h5 and thus preventing 32.Rh7), then 32.Qh6. This was given already by syracrophy. The reason it works is because if 32...Qf5 (to guard h7), then 33.e4 and the black queen dies or gives way to mate. Alternatively, if 32...Qd5+ 33.e4 and black has no more checks nor any way to guard h7.
The second attempt to defend, after 30.Qg5 Nc6 31.Rh4 is 31...Qe8, again guarding h5 and preventing the immediate rook sacrafice. This time 32.Qh6 fails, because of 32...Qxe2+ 33.Kh3 Qf1+ 34.Kg4 Qc4+ and there is no escape from the perpetual pursuit without swapping queens. Instead the correct move after 30...Nc6 31.Rh4 Qe8 is 32.Qf5. MostlyAverageJoe seemed to be aware of this... Black cannot defend h7, and 32...Qxe2+ is nothing to fear because after 33.Kh3, black has no more checks.
The third attempt to defend after 30. Qg5 Nc6 31.Rh4, which has not yet been mentioned, is 31...Qd6. The idea is to block check on h6 after the rook sacrafice. White wins in this line with 32.Rh6, and the black queen is threatened, has no checks, and no matter where it moves 33.Rxh7+ and 34.Qh5# are unstoppable.
So the conclusion is that 30...Nc6 does indeed fail to 31.Rh4. Hence, 30...Nf5 is definitely the best try. After 31.Rf4 Ne3 32.Kf3 Qe8 (all forced) 33.Qc5 is definitely clearly crushing.
There are only two attempts to save the knight, with 33...Nc1 or 33...Nf1, and in both cases, as recognized by HelaNubo, 34.Bxg7! wins. Since 34...Rxg7 loses the black queen to 35.Rf8, Black can try 34...Kg7 only to succumb to 35.Qd4+ , and any king move fails to 36.Qf6+ and 37. Rh4#, this sequence working against any defence.
So after 30...Nf5 31.Rf5 Ne3+ 32.Kf3 Qe8 33.Qc5, black is clearly lost. In response to alshatranji, the line given by Esterlin, 33...Ng2 34.Kxg2 Qxe2+ 35.Qf2 Qxf2+ 36.Rxf2 c5 37.Rf7, this is a smashingly decisive outcome. Black will lose at least his two extra pawns while trying to untangle his kingside, eg., 37...h6 38.Rxb7 Kh7 39.Rc7 etc. This would leave white a clear piece up.
All the endgames after 35...Qxf2+ are totally crushing for white, whilst if black attempts to keep the queens on, white will be simply a piece up, with extremely active pieces, unbearable pressure on g7, and should have no trouble mopping up one or more of the weak extra black queenside pawns in the process of sustaining play against g7 (since it will be 3 pieces against 1 while the rook is passively sitting on g8). The slightly open white king could make converting a bit of a chore if black is stubborn, but the win is clearly inevitable, especially at grandmaster level.
So 30.Qg5 wins!!
|Dec-07-07|| ||DukeAlba: <kevin86>.... Indeed, I have also reached a level of yet unseen futility this week in my ability to solve ANYTHING!|
|Dec-07-07|| ||ahmadov: A very good puzzle, I failed to find though...|
|Dec-07-07|| ||jumperino: Looking through the last page of kibitzing, I didn't see any mention of 30. ... Nf5 to try to save the game. What's the follow up to this?|
|Dec-07-07|| ||ahmadov: <jumperino: Looking through the last page of kibitzing, I didn't see any mention of 30. ... Nf5 to try to save the game. What's the follow up to this?> Does 30...Nf5 not lose the N after 31.Rf4?|
|Dec-07-07|| ||znprdx: <zooter: Not sure I understand>...MHA...um-er-ah got my post windows mixed up with my Babas pgn analysis. Your line comes to an even quicker end: 30.Qg5 Nc6 31.Rh4 because if Qe8, not Qh6? but 32. Qf5! After ... Qe2+ 33.Kh3 there is no defense to mate|
|Dec-07-07|| ||tatarch: Ahmadov- after 30...Nf5, 31.Rf4 black can play Ne3+ and then Qe8. Which I'm sure still loses in the end, but doesn't immediately lose the knight for nothing|
|Dec-07-07|| ||CaptGeorge: I liked Rf4 best. But I see earlier Kibitzing seems to refute that move. I still don't "see" how Qg5 works, if Black doesn't play Ng6. Oh, well....|
<zechiel> I liked your analysis. Maybe because we "think" somewhat alike - I still play BDG when I can too! It makes for some exciting games!
|Dec-07-07|| ||parmetd: this confuses I thought Qe5 holding all the pressure was great and I gave thought to Qg5 & Qc5. However, 1) this is not a three star puzzle. This is by far the hardest puzzle i've seen them give as there is NO clear advantage from any continuation. Qg5 either Nf5 or Nc8 = Qe5 Ng6 = Qc5 Nf5 Qxc7 maybe slightly better for white... but Qg5 Ng6????????? |
|Dec-07-07|| ||Sularus: I first considered
30. Rh4 but realized that Qf5 parries it.
My second choice was Qg5 to win the knight. I also saw the move Ng6 by black. But then I did NOT see the queen sac that should have followed. Damn.
|Dec-07-07|| ||porgue: <<<<<<<<<<<<Qg5!!>>>>>>>>>>>>|
subtle but crushing!
i'm not a very good chess puzzle solver, i usually can't get past wednesday :P
|Dec-07-07|| ||Infohunter: <mkrk17: ...[B]lack made a mistake of Ng6. I guess Qf5 still saves the game for black.>|
Not really; White would simply respond with 31.Qxe7, winning the Knight, as the White Rook would still be defended. Furthermore, Black would then be facing a threatened mate in three: 32.Qxg7+ Rxg7 33.Re8+ Qf8 34.Rxf8#.
|Dec-07-07|| ||The Sicilian Dragon: A rook smothered mate, how original. 30. Qe5 looked good but falls short.|
|Dec-07-07|| ||karnak64: Another great reminder that in the "quiet, positional" English opening there lurks a lot of tactics.|
|Dec-08-07|| ||ahmadov: <tatarch: Ahmadov- after 30...Nf5, 31.Rf4 black can play Ne3+ and then Qe8. Which I'm sure still loses in the end, but doesn't immediately lose the knight for nothing> I still believe that 31.Rf4 is the best move to respond 30...Nf5... Do you think there is better alternative? |
However, it is true that 30...Nf5 simply delays Black's loss. I think Black played 30...Ng6 because it just did not see 31.Qxg6...
|Dec-08-07|| ||alshatranji: "So after 30...Nf5 31.Rf5 Ne3+ 32.Kf3 Qe8 33.Qc5, black is clearly lost. In response to alshatranji, the line given by Esterlin, 33...Ng2 34.Kxg2 Qxe2+ 35.Qf2 Qxf2+ 36.Rxf2 c5 37.Rf7, this is a smashingly decisive outcome. Black will lose at least his two extra pawns while trying to untangle his kingside, eg., 37...h6 38.Rxb7 Kh7 39.Rc7 etc. This would leave white a clear piece up." |
I beg to differ. I still don't see two pawns for a piece after 7 moves "a smashingly decisive outcome". Yes, White is winning, and Black will EVENTUALLY lose one or two of his pawns. But is this something desicive enough for a puzzle. I don't think so. Just my opinion.
|Dec-16-07|| ||GufeldStudent: No, actually, black has no possibilities. If Nc6 (something must be done about the attacked N), then Qg6 with Rh4 to follow.|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·