< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Mar-21-06|| ||kansasofunitedstates: Black's horse was not a good player here!|
|Mar-21-06|| ||NakoSonorense: No, HCl is hydrochloric acid.|
|Mar-21-06|| ||Castle In The Sky: <LIFE Master AJ & dakgootje> HCL stands for hydrogen chloride. Apparently this game was played in a chemistry lab, as chess venues were hard to find in Buenos Aires in 1941.|
|Mar-21-06|| ||Sneaky: <Zplane: BXB still works - Just delays advancing the pawn for the next move.> You're the third person to say that and third person to be wrong.|
31.Bxf8? Kxf8 32.d7 Rd8 and how do you intend on continuing? 33.Rc8 Ke7 and it's Black, not White, who's winning.
|Mar-21-06|| ||Pawn and Two: Another variation where the White Rook crashes in, is if Black tries 30...Bxe7 31. dxe7 Nxa4. |
Then 31. Rd1! wins.
|Mar-21-06|| ||YouRang: Got it. I guessed pretty early on that this was going to be a promotion tactic, and I was right. :)|
The pattern in which a rook forks the opposing king and rook on the 8th rank while being protected by a pawn on the 7th rank is VERY useful. Stahlberg (black) should have been more suspicious after 30. Rc1.
|Mar-21-06|| ||outplayer: It should be pointed out that 29...Nb2 is a blunder. Stahlberg could hold with 29...Nxa5! |
|Mar-21-06|| ||drnooo: You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes or Capa to see that the knight is hanging and since it is a puzzle taking it has to be wrong or veryvery right. But you go for the first, dont take a ride on the horsey, and there ain't much left but push the pawn.
However just a suggestion. What about another section here of retrograde puzzles: how a position was reached a la the chess puzzles of Sherlock Holmes,however, made up by someone here, not the ones by Smulyan. Lovely pure logic problems that require no ability in chess except knowing the rules of the game and following a very twisted one way street of logic. This is a great site without them, of course, but I don't think any other chess site carries things like them, and figuring them out often is much harder than solving a thre or four move mate.|
|Mar-21-06|| ||outplayer: My comments would only prevail in a variation starting with 27...Rb8. In the game 29...Nxa5 is still .|
|Mar-21-06|| ||jackpawn: Found immediately. Same for yesterday. Maybe my tactical eye is returning . . .|
|Mar-21-06|| ||Pawn and Two: <outplayer: It should be pointed out that 29...Nb2 is a blunder. Stahlberg could hold with 29...Nxa5!>|
Actually 29...Nxa5 is no improvement. White can win with either 30. Bh4! or 30. Bf6!.
|Mar-21-06|| ||midknightblue: Hello. I thought both d7 and BxB were winning. Proven wrong of course. <al wazir> thx for explaining the BxB line.|
|Mar-21-06|| ||Pawn and Two: <outplayer: my comments would only prevail in a variation starting with 27...Rb8>.|
In Rueben Fine's notes to this game, in "Fifty Chess Masterpieces 1941-1944", he agrees that 27...Rb8, to set up the threat ...b5, would have held out longer, but he states that it was not enough to save the game. He gives the following variation: 27...Rb8 28.d6 Bf8 29.Rd4! Nxa5 (29...Nxb2 30.Bb3! Kg7 31.Rxe4 Nd3 32.d7 winning) 30.Bh4 b5 31.d7 Nc6 32.Rc4! Ne5 33.Bxb5! winning a piece and the game.
In this variation it may be better for Black to take the Rook at move 32, leading to a 2 Bishop vs Rook endgame with White having the winning chances.
After 27...Rb8, Fritz 9 prefers the following variation: 28.d6 Bf8 29.Rd4 Nxa5 30.Bh4 b5 31.Bc2 Nc6 32.Rd1 f5 33.d7 Nd8 34.Bb3+ Kg7 35. Rc1 Rb7 36. Bxd8 Rxd7 37. Rc7 winning for White.
|Mar-21-06|| ||mikejaqua: I saw d7 and thought, "Hey that works well." Then I saw Bxf8 and though, "Hey that gets rid of another black piece first." Then I looked that the solution and alwazir's analysis and thought, "Hey whoever I'm playing against would probably be as dumb as me so Bxf8 might have worked"|
|Mar-21-06|| ||Kaissa69: Contrary to other posts here -
PxN does win also!
After 31. .. Bxe7 32. dxe7 Re8 33. Rc7 b6
34. a6! f5 (...Ra8 35. Rd7) 35. Rxa7 Kf7 36. Rd7 Black is helpless to prevent a7 and Rd8
|Mar-21-06|| ||Pawn and Two: <Kaissa69: Contrary to other posts here - PXN does win also!> |
Actually 31.bxa4 is a very poor choice for White as it gives up most of White's advantage. With 31.d7!, White wins immediately.
While after 31.bxa4 Bxe7 32.dxe7 f5 33.Rc7 a6, Fritz 9 rates this position as (.62) (ply 19).
In the variation you provided, 31. bxa4 Bxe7 32. dxe7 Re8 33. Rc7 b6?? is a very bad mistake losing at once.
|Mar-21-06|| ||al wazir: <Pawn and Two, Kaissa69>: I posted the (incorrect) line 31. bxa4 Bxe7 32. dxe7 Re8 33. Rc7 b6 34. axb6 ax6, etc., earlier. I agree that 33...b6 is a mistake; after that either 34. a6 or Rxa7 wins, but axb6 doesn't.|
However, after 33...a6 34. Rxb7 f5 35. Ra7 Kf7 36. Rxa6 Rxe7 38. Rb6 Re5 (38...Ra7 39. a6 Ke8 40. a5, and black is in zugzwang) Rb5 looks good for white.
|Mar-21-06|| ||alphee: OK for a tuesday puzzle. Got this one but started with something different, trying to eliminate the ♘a4 in case the white c1 rook goes to c8. That's obvioulsy not the solution but it seems white could queen and win with a continuation like 31. bxa4 ♗xe7 32. dxe7 ♖e8 33. ♖c7 e3 b6 34. ♖xa7 b5 35. axb5 ♔g7 36. b6 ♔f6 37.♖c7 ♔f5 38. b7 ♔e5 39. a6 ♔d4 40. a7 ♔d3 41. b8=♕|
|Mar-21-06|| ||alphee: In fact I was not alone investigating this line: I did not read the previous posting before kibitzing.|
|Mar-21-06|| ||Pawn and Two: <al wazir>
At move 31, White can win immediately with 31.d7!. Certainly that is a excellent recommendation for 31.d7.
The only question seems to be, does 31.bxa4 also win for White?
Take another review of your suggested line after 31.bxa4.
I agree that the latest line you give; 31.bxa4 Bxe7 32.dxe7 Re8 33.Rc7 a6 34. Rxb7 f5 35.Ra7 Kf7 36.Rxa6 Rxe7 37. Rb6 Re5 38.Rb5 does look favorable for White.
However, I have not been able to find a win for White after 31.bxa4 Bxe7 32.dxe7 f5 33.Rc7 a6 34.Rxb7 Kf7. White has some advantage, but I do not see a win here for White.
|Mar-21-06|| ||Pawn and Two: <al wazir>
I noted your interesting suggestion that Black could hold the position with the move 25...b6.
Do you have any variations you can share to support your draw evaluation after 25...b6?
In Reuben Fine's notes for this game he stated that 25...b6 would be a little harder to refute than the text move 25...Ne5.
Fine gave the following variation to support his opinion: 25...b6 26.b4! Bf8 27. Bxd7 Rxd7 28.bxc5 Bxc5 29.Bxc5 bxc5 30. Rb1 with a fairly easy win for White per Fine.
I then did some checking with Fritz 9 and found the following: 25...b6 26.b4 cxb4 (cxb4 appears to be a better move than Bf8) 27.Bxd7 Rxd7 28.axb6 axb6 29. Bxb6 b3 30. c5 b2 31. d6 Be5 32. Bc7 f5 33. c6 Rf7 34. Rb1 Rf8 35. Rxb2 Bxb2 36. d7 and wins for White.
|Mar-21-06|| ||pali2: that was an awesome game but u need to learn how to make your moves|
|Mar-22-06|| ||al wazir: <Pawn and Two: <al wazir> Do you have any variations you can share to support your draw evaluation after 25...b6?> The short answer is "No." The only basis for my evaluation was that I couldn't see how to win for white.|
Offhand, I would say that after 25...b6 26. b4, since black is going to lose a ♙ anyway, he might do better with 26...Bd4, giving up the c ♙ in order to trade off the minor pieces: 27. Bxd4 (27. bxc5 Bxc5 or 27...Bxe3 28. fxe3 Nxc5) cxd4 28. Bxd7 Rxd7 29. axb6 axb6 30. Rxd4 f5. But now it looks as though white wins with 31. c5.
|Mar-22-06|| ||Pawn and Two: <al wazir> I agree that after 25...b6 26.b4! Bd4 27. Bxd4 cxd4 28.Bxd7 Rxd7 29.axb6 axb6 30.Rxd4 f5 31.c5 and White has a won game. |
I think the strongest defenses for Black after 25...b6 26. b4! are either cxb4 or Bf8. However, as I have indicated, neither of these moves appear to save the game for Black.
To find a successful defense for Black, it seems one would have to look prior to move 25.
One small improvement according to Fritz 9 is at move 23. Fritz favors 23...Nc8 instead of 25...Nd7. However, White still has the advantage.
|Mar-23-06|| ||patzer2: The pawn advance 31. d7! sets up a winning double attack on the back rank.|
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